Coronavirus - hype or pandemlc?

[StMarks]

Not sure how we should feel about this development.; https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus ... ction.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fact that he displayed no symptoms the second time, is a very assuring indicator imo.

[kiwikrasher]

I wonder if it will be a case of it acting similar to the common cold. Isolated populations through history have always been affected greatly by the common cold infecting their people, yet as we know, those more used to it’s presence are not anywhere near as affected.

Once COVID has had a good go around the world wide population will it just be another flu/cold strain with much less detrimental effects?

[duke63]

It will be like a nasty flu strain.

The issue with covid 19 seems to be that it affects the lungs (not all flu bugs do) and in some cases the body’s immunity also turns on itself. None of these things are new but the level and speed of infection rate meant they could not just let it pass through the population. The numbers that might die were and still are just too high to take a risk.

[Blade]

@kiwi what u think mate, is it true???

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... M&d=n&vh=e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kiwikrasher]

@kiwi what u think mate, is it true???

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... M&d=n&vh=e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is Alan Jones. A very controversial radio personality. He will twist info to suit his agenda and is no better than a politician.

Billion dollars a life, do we put a value on someone’s life??? 1% of the population is still a lot of deaths. I can’t find the stats I saw but it was along the lines of for every 1 mortality, it was 5-10 ICU cases and 20-30 long term health issues. It’s not just about deaths.

As Duke says, I don’t feel we can let this virus go unchecked as it currently has far more severe repercussions than the normal flus.

Personally here in Australia I don’t think they have found the balance between risk and isolation. But no one knows the answer, it’s all reaction to the current data. First wave I think it was worth it, saved a lot of lives compared to UK and USA.

Second wave I think outside of Victoria they have gone to overboard, but I’m bias as it is greatly affecting me and my work travel. Ask someone dealing with long term lung issues or a dead family member and they probably don’t think it’s hard enough.

I do think at this stage we need to balance the risk of COVID with economic survival in a much better way.

Have I got the answers.... no.

[Blade]

Personally I wouldnt put a value on a life either, but sadly that's what goverments have to do and will do every day as there isn't an unlimited pot of money, as much as people think and would like to believe there is. The uncomfortable truth is the goverment need to be balance the risk of a pandemic with the impact to the economy.

An interesting set of stats I saw the other day had average deaths in the UK measured at 172 per day. Of that 172 figure, 126 deaths were people over 85 with under lying health conditions. There was another big group of people aged between 75 and 84 and then a third group of people aged 65 to 74 again with under lying health conditions. The statistics of people under 65, fit and health with no under lying health condtioms was a very lowly 0.3 deaths per day.

Thats 0.3 deaths under 65 and 171.7 deaths over 65 with healths problems of which 126 of the 171.7 were over 85 with complex health problems.

If that stat didn't offer some perspective the next one did. Apparently 27 people die in the UK every day from falling over.

If 0.3 under 65 die from Coronavirus each day and 27 die from falling over each day, then why are we not ploughing money and resources into stopping people falling over????

Then what about cancer. Horrible horrible disease that takes too many people every day from all age groups. The statistics says 1 in every 2 people will get cancer in their life time. Thats half of the world will be effected by cancer. Why isn't the same amount of resource put into cancer treatment to save lifes. In fact some cancer treatment was stopped during lockdown to allow resources to ve channelled into treating covid 19.

Don't get me wrong every single death from covid 19 is one too many and I don't mean disrespect to those effected by this awful diease but is the balance between a successful economy, which is keeping people in jobs, fed and housed truly proportional to the actual risk covid 19 presents to the fit and healthy.

Would isolating the most vulnerable not have been a better choice? There was fore sight on this very matter but it was ignored and a total lockdown was implemented. It seems now after spending billions and billions of tax payers money that we didn't have and could have been used elsewhere in society (police, schools, hospitals, homeless) we are now starting to take a more risk based assessment approach to living and fighting covid 19.

[Kwacky]

That's a lot of over 85 to die in one day. Are those stats accurate?

For me the best way to look at it is to compare death rates in previous years to this years. The data about the virus has been manipulated in a number of ways. Loads of the population have underlying conditions - heart disease, cancer, diabetes, asthma etc. They're not all going to kill you. You don't ignore someone killed in a car crash as a road fatality because they had prostrate cancer. If covid kills my mum do we ignore that as a covid death because she's ill with something else, despite the fact she's expected to live for a few more years?

This disease seems to be causing long term damage in survivors. At present if anyone dies 28 days after diagnosis they're not counted. If the lungs are damaged by the disease and we have a cold winter we could see a sharp rise in deaths, but they won't be classed as covid deaths.

[D41]

If that stat didn't offer some perspective the next one did. Apparently 27 people die in the UK every day from falling over.

If 0.3 under 65 die from Coronavirus each day and 27 die from falling over each day, then why are we not ploughing money and resources into stopping people falling over????

Falling is one of the leading causes of death....I think it's #2 or #3.
I don't know how stopping something like that can be achieved....all the walkers, railings, etc. in the world don't really do anything at all when a person's legs go out from under them. I see them more as a liability protection than anything....unless you've got them absolutely everywhere, like in a hospital, or assisted-living home...in which case you're already fcuked.

Coronavirus is also contagious.....and unless you're a soccer player, falling isn't.

[Blade]

Valid points D, but the stats still says the contagious diease is killing 0.3 people under 65 a day and falling over is killing 27 people a day.

Imo the statistic shows the media has focused our attention very narrowly on what is a relatively small risk for the majority of people, when compared with the everyday day risks of being alive and not isolated in a protective wrapper. This target fixation has created fear and panic in all sectors of society and goverment and Im simply suggesting the event and reaction to the event needs some balance and perspective.

[D41]

Oh...I agree.
And because I'm an American, I "agree totally" (????)
From a numbers perspective, the pandemic is just a slightly taller spike on a graph.
But it's one more thing on top of everything, I guess....one more thing we don't need.
We've become our own worst enemy....at least, that's what the cynic in me says.

[duke63]

Covid 19 is a very contagious virus. Its killing low numbers because its being controlled by keeping people from risk at the moment.

If everyone went back to where they were before the pandemic, the numbers dying would rise exponentially again and hospitals would be over run again.

Government needs to get its own staff back working before it starts pointing fingers at others.

[Blade]

There is little control I see tbh Duke.

Pubs are busy with no social distancing, your free to mingle and when ive been the shops despite Manchester being in a stricter lockdown there's perhaps 30%, or if I'm generous 40% of people wearing masks. I wear a mask not because I want to (I hate it) but because its what were asked to do and I'm complying,but many are not.

[Blade]

If everyone went back to where they were before the pandemic, the numbers dying would rise exponentially again and hospitals would be over run again.

.

I think we can go back to normal with simple controls. Anyone with health issues that would be complicated from covid19 and those over 65 ( higher risk of mortality and also not working population, so good fit) self isolate and a better level of financial and health support be targeted to those that need it rather than carpet bomb the entire population with the same policy. Anyone ill must self isolated. Employers and schools to send anyone home with any symptoms.

Regards hosptials being over run. That never happened at the peak, there were thousands of intensve care beds empty and the nightingale hospitals weare never touched.

We won't agree but imo we over reacted. Instead of spreading support and resource thinly we should have been more risk and target group focused.

[duke63]

Some hospitals were over run.

And there were a few patients in some of the Nightingale hospitals. But the issue with them is they do not have enough nurses to use them properly.

If patients end up on a ventilator they are effectively in ICU and need round the round the clock care. We do not have enough hospital staff to do that.

[Blade]

You must have been looking at different data to me Duke. What I saw was 1000 ICU beds unused and yes although the nightingale hospitals were in use, I think there was like 20 patients in a field hosptial with a capacity for 4000and i believe that was just one out of four nightingale hospital's .

[duke63]

The NHS doesn’t have 10,000 critical care beds in total.

I don’t think it even has half that number. I think it’s about 4000 in England.

Back in February 82% of all the critical care beds the NHS had were occupied. This was before the pandemic even started.

[Blade]

Typo Duke I meant a 1000

[duke63]

The Nightingale beds are not critical care beds as they would be in a hospital building.

They are a last resort rather than turning people away from hospital care. They would not be be able to provide the same level of care and support to a seriously ill patient.

[Kwacky]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-53948028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've heard of a few stories of people having long lasting symptoms from this virus.

[Cav]

A lot are complaining of post-viral fatigue - formerly Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - formerly M.E - formerly Yuppy flu.

As horrible as it sounds, I hope this is a symptom so our government increase spending on research from the MASSIVE £0 they currently invest to investigate it. I'm currently being investigated for it (having been investigated in my late teens), my Wife has it and various people I know have it.