This is the sort of politics we need

[duke63]

-5% is a positive difference in this context.

+5% is a negative difference and just brings everything forward quicker.

[C00kiemonster]

Cookie, have you considered a ground source heat exchanger, if you've got some clear space adjacent to your building.?

We nearly did just that 8 years ago when we started building this place, but after taking a hard look at the figures (£20k+ of stuff needed) for ground source and underfloor heating etc we decided not to have any heating sources other than two very efficient wood burners (93% plus). We over insulated this house too so use very little energy in comparison. My monthly bills are quite small compared to most.

We live at the edge of a forest and own a small section of it, so if necessary can coppice our own wood. We buy it in every winter at the moment (as it's cheap round here) and its sustainable as the trees are coppiced and therefore regrow.

Ultimately i'd like solar and then in a few years an electric car. I am then able to fuel my own transport.

As has been said - it's not like we need to live like monks all of a sudden - just be mindful of energy and resource usage. We irrigate our garden with rainwater and fill our swimming pool with rainwater too. Any changes make a difference. Gradually we will then all end up using less energy. To say that we are all hypocrites is correct, but you cant change things overnight. In 50 years time people should laugh at our petrol engines and big nasty powerstations.

People state that electric cars produce as much Co2 as petrol in some cases as the production element of batteries produces quite a lot of nasties. It does, but on my view it at least puts the CO2 production in fixed places (ie factories) which can then be controlled and potentially forced to store CO2 rather than release it into the atmosphere and into our kids lungs in cities etc etc. Electric cars are a stepping stone to cleaner transport and potentially Uber type transport rather than this obsession with owning cars. Therefore less will be produced etc etc.

If we can rid ourselves gradually of our dependance on oil, then there should be less wars and less need to worry about energy production. I love my motorbike, but we are the last generation who will have them in their current form. Anything we do will make a difference - then culture and attitude will start to change.

Its not my generation who will benefit - it's our kids. They need to have a much lower carbon economy. The irony is that if you put the right systems in place in your house, it's cheaper to run and uses less resources. The issue is governmental - start to insist on certain standards - such as fixing which plastics can be manufactured and have producers of plastic pay for the level of recycling needed so they have responsibility for what they produce will make a big difference. The other standards required are for buildings. All new buildings should have rainwater and solar harvesting systems. They are not expensive now and a boom in eco systems would mean an economic boost which the the whole world needs right now.

All the technologies to solve all the problems are there now - it's cultural and governmental attitudes that need to change.

There is also the cynical side of me that thinks the populous of the world is too large anyway so so extinction wouldn't hurt....

[Blade]

OK we are never going to agree here are we, that much is clear.

My personal decision is I find it difficult to be a hypocrite, and I say it honestly and try to hold my hands up when I'm in the wrong. I'm a consumer and admit that. I consumer more than I need too, both for existence but also for comfort and pleasure as I want more comfort and pleasure at the expense of the environment.

My point is many other people are the same but kid themselves they are not. The only difference I see is I'm being honest about it.

We say we need these sort of politics but imo the real reality is maybe we do need them, but the true reality is and being sincere here, we don't actually want them. If we want to make easy choices to reduce our negative impact on this planet we don't need politicians to tell us so.

We are intelligent people capable of making conscious choices. Some of those choices contradict the best environmental decisions we can make as we choose too.

If we wanted to make a bigger difference we can, it's within our individual powers.

[C00kiemonster]

OK we are never going to agree here are we, that much is clear.

My personal decision is I find it difficult to be a hypocrite, and I say it honestly and try to hold my hands up when I'm in the wrong. I'm a consumer and admit that. I consumer more than I need too, both for existence but also for comfort and pleasure as I want more comfort and pleasure at the expense of the environment.

My point is many other people are the same but kid themselves they are not. The only difference I see is I'm being honest about it.

We say we need these sort of politics but imo the real reality is maybe we do need them, but the true reality is and being sincere here, we don't actually want them. If we want to make easy choices to reduce our negative impact on this planet we don't need politicians to tell us so.

We are intelligent people capable of making conscious choices. Some of those choices contradict the best environmental decisions we can make as we choose too.

If we wanted to make a bigger difference we can, it's within our individual powers.

I agree with all that.

Except I'd add I think many people are not as intelligent and the politicians need to help it along. The current politicians are incapable of doing so sadly.

I think it will take a lot more environmental disaster before it becomes important

[Kwacky]

What disappoints me is seeing so many people think that they can't make a difference. They can.

[Cav]

It's Brexit's fault...

[Blade]

OK we are never going to agree here are we, that much is clear.

My personal decision is I find it difficult to be a hypocrite, and I say it honestly and try to hold my hands up when I'm in the wrong. I'm a consumer and admit that. I consumer more than I need too, both for existence but also for comfort and pleasure as I want more comfort and pleasure at the expense of the environment.

My point is many other people are the same but kid themselves they are not. The only difference I see is I'm being honest about it.

We say we need these sort of politics but imo the real reality is maybe we do need them, but the true reality is and being sincere here, we don't actually want them. If we want to make easy choices to reduce our negative impact on this planet we don't need politicians to tell us so.

We are intelligent people capable of making conscious choices. Some of those choices contradict the best environmental decisions we can make as we choose too.

If we wanted to make a bigger difference we can, it's within our individual powers.

I agree with all that.

Except I'd add I think many people are not as intelligent and the politicians need to help it along. The current politicians are incapable of doing so sadly.

I think it will take a lot more environmental disaster before it becomes important

Thank you for agreeing Cookie and yes I suspect your very right.

[Cav]

OK we are never going to agree here are we, that much is clear.

My personal decision is I find it difficult to be a hypocrite, and I say it honestly and try to hold my hands up when I'm in the wrong. I'm a consumer and admit that. I consumer more than I need too, both for existence but also for comfort and pleasure as I want more comfort and pleasure at the expense of the environment.

My point is many other people are the same but kid themselves they are not. The only difference I see is I'm being honest about it.

We say we need these sort of politics but imo the real reality is maybe we do need them, but the true reality is and being sincere here, we don't actually want them. If we want to make easy choices to reduce our negative impact on this planet we don't need politicians to tell us so.

We are intelligent people capable of making conscious choices. Some of those choices contradict the best environmental decisions we can make as we choose too.

If we wanted to make a bigger difference we can, it's within our individual powers.

I agree with all that.

Except I'd add I think many people are not as intelligent and the politicians need to help it along. The current politicians are incapable of doing so sadly.

I think it will take a lot more environmental disaster before it becomes important

Thank you for agreeing Cookie and yes I suspect your very right.

FWIW I agree with both of you. I do, however, think that Cookie has his rose-tinted specs on if he thinks his solution is viable for the masses. Certainly not in my lifetime.

I would love to live how Cookie is saying though.. really genuinely would. I just dn't know how much solar I can get from my roof even though it's south facing. I have serious concerns about the lithium used in batteries too.

[Blade]

Cookie, have you considered a ground source heat exchanger, if you've got some clear space adjacent to your building.?

We nearly did just that 8 years ago when we started building this place, but after taking a hard look at the figures (£20k+ of stuff needed) for ground source and underfloor heating etc we decided not to have any heating sources other than two very efficient wood burners (93% plus). We over insulated this house too so use very little energy in comparison. My monthly bills are quite small compared to most.

We live at the edge of a forest and own a small section of it, so if necessary can coppice our own wood. We buy it in every winter at the moment (as it's cheap round here) and its sustainable as the trees are coppiced and therefore regrow.

Ultimately i'd like solar and then in a few years an electric car. I am then able to fuel my own transport.

As has been said - it's not like we need to live like monks all of a sudden - just be mindful of energy and resource usage. We irrigate our garden with rainwater and fill our swimming pool with rainwater too. Any changes make a difference. Gradually we will then all end up using less energy. To say that we are all hypocrites is correct, but you cant change things overnight. In 50 years time people should laugh at our petrol engines and big nasty powerstations.

People state that electric cars produce as much Co2 as petrol in some cases as the production element of batteries produces quite a lot of nasties. It does, but on my view it at least puts the CO2 production in fixed places (ie factories) which can then be controlled and potentially forced to store CO2 rather than release it into the atmosphere and into our kids lungs in cities etc etc. Electric cars are a stepping stone to cleaner transport and potentially Uber type transport rather than this obsession with owning cars. Therefore less will be produced etc etc.

If we can rid ourselves gradually of our dependance on oil, then there should be less wars and less need to worry about energy production. I love my motorbike, but we are the last generation who will have them in their current form. Anything we do will make a difference - then culture and attitude will start to change.

Its not my generation who will benefit - it's our kids. They need to have a much lower carbon economy. The irony is that if you put the right systems in place in your house, it's cheaper to run and uses less resources. The issue is governmental - start to insist on certain standards - such as fixing which plastics can be manufactured and have producers of plastic pay for the level of recycling needed so they have responsibility for what they produce will make a big difference. The other standards required are for buildings. All new buildings should have rainwater and solar harvesting systems. They are not expensive now and a boom in eco systems would mean an economic boost which the the whole world needs right now.

All the technologies to solve all the problems are there now - it's cultural and governmental attitudes that need to change.

There is also the cynical side of me that thinks the populous of the world is too large anyway so so extinction wouldn't hurt....

Good for you Cookie and superbly written post Informative and enjoyable read that is quite inspiring tbh

[Kwacky]

If you want to don a tin foil hat start digging around conspiracy theories about climate change and pollution.

There's big money coming from large corporations to debunk climate change.

There's big money behind climate change and pollution. For a start polluting is usually a result of industry. It's cheaper to pollute than clean up.

Pollution causes diseases and illness. There's money in that.

Raising the earth's temperature causes disasters. There's money in that.

It also impacts on water supplies and accessibility. There's money in that

If you want to go deeper than that then there's theories that the rich only need the poor to work. Workers lose their value after about 50. Non working people are expensive to maintain. If you can control the population via the environment then you can maximize profit and reduce the cost to the governments who have to look after an aging population.

[duke63]

At least I am doing something. If people want to call my a hypocrite then frankly who cares.

I would hate to have a grandchild sat on my knee in 10 years time and think I did sweet fa to make sure they had a sustainable future.

Kwackys point is very valid. I know someone who works within the r and d of the pharmaceutical industry - they are more interested in diseases and the relevant drugs where they can keep people alive but only by being dependent on a particular drug for the rest of their life. Once they can do that, they don’t go looking for permanent cures. His words not mine.

The same can be said if the way the world lives it’s life. Better to have a problem that can be held at bay and make money, rather than having a permanent fix.

[Blade]

At least I am doing something. If people want to call my a hypocrite then frankly who cares.

I would hate to have a grandchild sat on my knee in 10 years time and think I did sweet fa to make sure they had a sustainable future.

Kwackys point is very valid. I know someone who works within the r and d of the pharmaceutical industry - they are more interested in diseases and the relevant drugs where they can keep people alive but only by being dependent on a particular drug for the rest of their life. Once they can do that, they don’t go looking for permanent cures. His words not mine.

The same can be said if the way the world lives it’s life. Better to have a problem that can be held at bay and make money, rather than having a permanent fix.

Duke I'm not having a go. It's just my opinion that as hobby motorcyclists and multiple combustion engined vehicle owners we dont do anywhere near as much as we could. It's a uncomfortable truth for many of us, and something perhaps we should open our eyes too if we are serious about change.

Like you, I do contribute where I can and WANT to, but being very honest, I'm criticising myself as I freely admit I choose not to do as much as I very easily could. I feel if I said otherwise I would be a hypocrite.

[Kwacky]

At least you're aware of the issues though. That's a massive step towards change.

[duke63]

If someone will swap my bike and car fit an electric one I would quite happily do so now.

I am aware using petrol causes issues but I am not in a financial position where I can consider cleaner vehicles.

We try and for more all the time. Our most recent things is no longer using shower gels and soaps in plastic bottles. We have gone back to soap bars and to be honest they work better. It’s another of those things of being conditioned to accept something that probably suits the manufacturer but no one else.

[StMarks]

What disappoints me is seeing so many people think that they can't make a difference. They can.

Not by simply re-cycling & changing their transport they can't. That was what I was trying to say.: Those actions simply enable us to feel better about our personal position, so that we can ignore the real elephant in the room.

....My point is many other people are the same but kid themselves they are not. The only difference I see is I'm being honest about it....

Nail, head, BANG.!

If you want to don a tin foil hat start digging around conspiracy theories about climate change and pollution.

There's big money coming from large corporations to debunk climate change.

There's big money behind climate change and pollution. For a start polluting is usually a result of industry. It's cheaper to pollute than clean up.

Pollution causes diseases and illness. There's money in that.

Raising the earth's temperature causes disasters. There's money in that.

It also impacts on water supplies and accessibility. There's money in that

If you want to go deeper than that then there's theories that the rich only need the poor to work. Workers lose their value after about 50. Non working people are expensive to maintain. If you can control the population via the environment then you can maximize profit and reduce the cost to the governments who have to look after an aging population.

You could go deeper still, and contemplate why it is commonplace that facts like some of those you have indicated above are so readily derided as "foil hat stuff".
Pythagoras.!

[duke63]

So what do you suggest, StMarks.?

We just ignore the problem altogether and hope it will go away.?

The fundamental changes needed wont happen as long as big corporations can buy influence in Government.

[StMarks]

So what do you suggest, StMarks.?

We just ignore the problem altogether and hope it will go away.?

The fundamental changes needed wont happen as long as big corporations can buy influence in Government.

No I most certainly don't believe we should ignore the problem of overpopulation, but the fact is that almost everyone is doing precisely that.
Afik China is the only state on the planet that has implemented any "reasonable" stratagy to address the problem. That is the only effective government that controls corporations, rather than visa-versa.
Thing is, their policies are hardly popular throughout the free world.?

[Blade]

We are saying the same things StMarks but you and Cookie just say it better than me

[duke63]

The only way of reducing population on a mass scale is war or epidemic.

I wouldn't put is past politicians to be planning either...or both.

[Blade]

The only way of reducing population on a mass scale is war or epidemic.

I wouldn't put is past politicians to be planning either...or both.

If we weren't the Alpha species on the planet you could bet the one that was would be having a cull on the human species