The next prime minister

[duke63]

You miss the point, Rossgo.

One day you will be the enemy of Farage and his followers. That is how right wing politics works.

[bb41]

You are absolutely right wars are online from very small spats between friends to country V country

I am never fully decided about modern technology as in some aspects it is totally awesome . in others it is the devil reincarnate

I was just looking at my Encyclopaedia Britannica set all 26 tomes of it and wondering in what corner can I abandoned them .. I remember getting a D minus for copying paragraphs word for word... it's called copy and paste now !!

Hundreds of hard backed books that charities won't take and now looking at my brothers old train set , still in it's little brown case thinking shall I sell it and maybe some enthusiast might get some joy out of it ?

Politics is all online along with every research material you could wish for rather than having to get up, go out and look for it .

We may have opposing views here and pretty much on every platform social media throws at us but wonder if we really are better off socially with all this info both real and fake at our fingertips

...and yes we are all manipulated whichever view we have , I suppose it's how our brains interpret what we see makes our views different

[D41]

Train set? Do tell.

[Kwacky]

Hitler was very good at swaying opinion. It's why politicians have copied his style. Using the beer halls was a great way to get his career off the ground as it made it look like he was with the comment man, at ground level, with the workers, sharing their view points. Once he got near the top he immediately switched to large venues to give the impression of power and leadership.

Just watched the next time an MP makes a mistake. If the press are on their side, it gets a brief mention then they move on. If the press are against that person, it's highlighted and repeated. Diane Abbott is a classic example. Yes, she cocks things up, but you can guarantee every single mistake is reported over and over again. Abbott getting her figures wrong over policing was more news worth than May losing documents connecting MPs to child sex abuse rings.

We live in a headline generation - people rarely get beyond the opening lines of a news article. Gossip is a fire which spreads fast but is hard to put out. That's why social media is so effective in pushing the way people think. I've lost count of the number of times I've been told about the Lisbon Treaty and how the UK will have to hand over our armed forces to the EU as well as having to adopt the Euro. It's all bollocks but people are ready to believe it because it fits their belief that the EU controls us and wants to tighten that control.

I can go on about this for ages. First Impression and Impression Formation was one of my favourite topics when I did psychology.

Anyway, all we can do is question what we're told. Even if it's as little as going to a fact check website .

[Monty]

True that.

September 2018 - Labour conference sets Brexit policy including the option of a second vote

January 2019 - Labour votes 3 times to support a public vote in Parliament

Mainstream media May 2019 - " Labour shifts policy to support public vote as a result of EU election disaster"

[duke63]

Its interesting also how the media portrays Brexit as a policy everyone wants but politicians fail to deliver. That patently is not true.

The Brexit party got 30% of the vote in an election where only 36% of the electorate voted. That works out at 12% of those who could vote. That is hardly a majority of the Country on any level yet you would have thought all those who were in favour of Brexit would have made sure their voice was heard. Or maybe they did and that only translates to that 12%.

The truth is more people voted for Ant-Brexit Parties last week than did for those for it which is why the Tories will have to be very very careful what they do next. An election could well mean they lose power altogether.

[Monty]

More people signed a petition to withdraw article 50 than voted for leave parties. Lets be honest the whole system is broken.

[D41]

The Brexit party got 30% of the vote in an election where only 36% of the electorate voted. That works out at 12% of those who could vote. That is hardly a majority of the Country on any level yet you would have thought all those who were in favour of Brexit would have made sure their voice was heard. Or maybe they did and that only translates to that 12%.

Doesn't matter.....you can't really second-guess which way people "might" have voted, you can only go by those that did.

[bb41]

Its interesting also how the media portrays Brexit as a policy everyone wants but politicians fail to deliver. That patently is not true.

The Brexit party got 30% of the vote in an election where only 36% of the electorate voted. That works out at 12% of those who could vote. That is hardly a majority of the Country on any level yet you would have thought all those who were in favour of Brexit would have made sure their voice was heard. Or maybe they did and that only translates to that 12%.

The truth is more people voted for Ant-Brexit Parties last week than did for those for it which is why the Tories will have to be very very careful what they do next. An election could well mean they lose power altogether.

Like I said this has been shot down so many times... My question if the figures were the other way round would you hold your hands up and say "OK Brexit won" ??

No... ridiculous analogy and clutching at straws

[Kwacky]

Interesting to see how guarded some of the Tory hopefuls are being. They all recognise that brexit is pretty much the only issue people are interested in but many, including Rees Mogg, saying No Deal will lead to a general election, which obviously the Tories don't want.

[bb41]

I think it is quite clear that Tories will go for hard Brexit and labour now will adopt a second referendum or what Diane Abbott calls a peoples vote, whatever the hell that means

[Kwacky]

I thought they mean two different things.

One is obviously another referendum.

The other is putting a list of choices; remain in the EU, leave with no deal, leave on the government's terms.

[C00kiemonster]

I don't want Diane Abbot counting anything

[duke63]

Its interesting also how the media portrays Brexit as a policy everyone wants but politicians fail to deliver. That patently is not true.

The Brexit party got 30% of the vote in an election where only 36% of the electorate voted. That works out at 12% of those who could vote. That is hardly a majority of the Country on any level yet you would have thought all those who were in favour of Brexit would have made sure their voice was heard. Or maybe they did and that only translates to that 12%.

The truth is more people voted for Ant-Brexit Parties last week than did for those for it which is why the Tories will have to be very very careful what they do next. An election could well mean they lose power altogether.

Like I said this has been shot down so many times... My question if the figures were the other way round would you hold your hands up and say "OK Brexit won" ??

No... ridiculous analogy and clutching at straws

This as the vote last week, not the Last GE or the referendum.

[duke63]

I think it is quite clear that Tories will go for hard Brexit and labour now will adopt a second referendum or what Diane Abbott calls a peoples vote, whatever the hell that means

Hard Brexit will cause a General Election which will most likely mean the Tories lose power allowing Labour to set up a customs union.

Sorry but I don't believe a hard Brexit can happen now unless the EU decide it will. A Tory PM would have to force one through against the will of Parliament which means he/she would face a vote of no confidence on 1 November and a GE a few weeks later.

[Rossgo]

Thing is we live in a democracy and yet No one seems to be happy living in one. When we get the wrong result the people who didn't vote that way try their hardest to get their own views pushed across in whatever way they can. If the result went the other way I genuinely don't see the anti EU protests and us calling out everyone for a revote etc etc



Is this a democracy? I seem.to be loosing the idea of what a democracy is at the moment.

Is a dictatorship better for us right now because it seems like we would prob all benefit from one at the moment.

Regarding the whole anti leave, keep all the people who believe they have been betrayed by the government and don't bother to vote anymore. I've seen a few people say on my FB and I've talked to a a few people who have specifically stated that they have voted and the government haven't delivered so their trust in any party has left them so they won't bother from now on.

Not really a free will country are we where the whole game is always hoi g to end up wanting a rematch but that rematch is only when all the top players have been banned from playing

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Cav]

IMO our democratic system is far from democratic - I've expressed that opinion before but I always seemed to be on my own with that opinion

[Kwacky]

We have re-elections on a regular basis for our MPs, councils, MEPs, Mayors. Is that undemocratic?

People switched in massive numbers from the Conservative Party to the Brexit Party. Does changing your mind make you a traitor?

I understand the argument against another vote about Brexit,

But so much new information has come to light, when we've already seen how damaging it is to leave, when jobs have already been lost and our economy has suffered, when The highest court in this land says that the referendum result would have been overturned had it been legally binding, when the courts accept arguments that the public were lied to, when people can't explain where the funds came from, surely that's more than enough reason to look at it again.

Put it in simple terms. You're getting married. You find out that your wife to be has been lying to you, she's seeing someone else, she won't pay for any of the wedding costs and she's not certain she wants to spend the rest of her life with you. Do you still go ahead with the wedding because that's what you've previously decided to do. Or do you re-assess the situation?

[Kwacky]

Is this a democracy? I seem.to be loosing the idea of what a democracy is at the moment.

Is a dictatorship better for us right now because it seems like we would prob all benefit from one at the moment.

This is very dangerous talk. It's how dictators get into power. You really need to look at the millions of people killed because dictators told the public that democracy has failed.

[bb41]

We have re-elections on a regular basis for our MPs, councils, MEPs, Mayors. Is that undemocratic?

People switched in massive numbers from the Conservative Party to the Brexit Party. Does changing your mind make you a traitor?

I understand the argument against another vote about Brexit,

But so much new information has come to light, when we've already seen how damaging it is to leave, when jobs have already been lost and our economy has suffered, when The highest court in this land says that the referendum result would have been overturned had it been legally binding, when the courts accept arguments that the public were lied to, when people can't explain where the funds came from, surely that's more than enough reason to look at it again.

Put it in simple terms. You're getting married. You find out that your wife to be has been lying to you, she's seeing someone else, she won't pay for any of the wedding costs and she's not certain she wants to spend the rest of her life with you. Do you still go ahead with the wedding because that's what you've previously decided to do. Or do you re-assess the situation?

You say that we were lied to and a lot of leave voters will want to change their mind now doesn't really ring true , myself, and other leave voters won't change their mind if anything they are more insistent than ever before .

I'd be happy if another vote went ahead if only to stop this mess once and for all, but even if vote leave won again the remain section of the country still would do everything to stop it and vote leave would have every right to create like merry hell so it won't actually solve anything.

We all believe our way is the right way and minds won't be changed , and as I said there should have been a clear margin which leave needed to reach to allow it to be implemented .

If there was a huge surge for a leave vote then its what the majority want , if as in this case it was close then it would have shown that we need change from within and big changes which we, as the voters would judge at election time s