Tank Slap - Motorcycle Forum

kiwikrasher wrote:

D41 wrote:a modern plane, left purely to human control, would simply fall out of the sky.

What a load of dribble

i think he means without computers to help?

The modern airliner can still be flown fully manually. Yes it’s fly by wire similar to a lot of cars and bikes but it’s not “computer controlled” it is still been flown on pilot input. Even periods of autopilot are still inputs by the pilot, just in a different manner. All take offs and 98-99% of all landings are in full manual control.

Blade wrote:Ray you can get different Safety Integrity Levels (SiL 1 to 4) for instruments and you could employ triple redundancy if needed.

Simple systems with low risk fail yes. But high integrity systems can prove almost fail free.
.

We must have bought cheap shite in the past Steve unless in the last few years that I,ve been off this game things have progressed as far as being fail free.

Thats great news though which would make my job much easier and less stress free now.

kiwikrasher wrote:All take offs and 98-99% of all landings are in full manual control.

On commercial aircraft?

It's more like 20% now and most of those are for pilot or co pilot practice.

The only aircraft that I know of which can't fly without the computers is the Typhoon, it's natural instability is what makes it so maneuverable... But that's a military jet, if it all goes wrong the pilot can eject.



As for autopilot in cars? nothing is idiot proof, some people seem to take it as a challenge to out-fox safety systems or things designed to help them.
I remember a story of someone setting cruise control in a camper then going in the back to make a drink, googled it and found that it has happened quite a few times

????

D41 wrote: ????

Me? No... I just drive for a living and see a lot of crazy stuff out there on the roads.

Kwacky wrote:

kiwikrasher wrote:All take offs and 98-99% of all landings are in full manual control.

On commercial aircraft?

It's more like 20% now and most of those are for pilot or co pilot practice.

Do you have a reference for those figures Kwacky? Not being argumentative but genuinely interested. I’ve been out of aviation for over 10 yrs now but in the last year bumped into an ex jet pilot I use to serve with who flies commercial now. I teased him that he just sits and watches the plane fly these days. It was him that told me nearly all landings are still manual, with exception for
1. Monthly Autoland certification
2. Approaches where cloud base is below 200ft and only if the airfield is spec’ed to do them.

They are possible and in some situations used more regularly but the impression he gave me was contrary to your comments.

There is no doubt a lot of automation in aircraft but it’s basis is that the pilot is always in control, it’s his commands the autopilot is carrying out, a set climb rate while he maintains track and deals with radio traffic after take off, a point and shoot cruise to unload the pilot at the most low risk parts of the flight etc.

The problem with automated cars is unlike aircraft the ‘pilot in control’ is very rarely highly trained and has far less accountability if they don’t give due attention. But I agree they are only going to be more prevalent in the future. And current hours vs accident rates are still well lower than human full control driving. And of those driverless accidents a significant proportion are actually driver cars crashing into the driverless car.

"You must think in Russian..."

kiwikrasher wrote:

D41 wrote:a modern plane, left purely to human control, would simply fall out of the sky.

What a load of dribble

My bad.....I was thinking of the F-117 Nighthawk/Have Blue.....sommit I read about it somewhere. But that was a very odd looking mofo of a plane to begin with.

@Kiwi - that's from my mate who flies commercial. Pilots still prefer to do the take off and landings but both are usually done on auto with pilot input. From memory they have to land the aircraft on autopilot a certain number of times. It's a requirement.

He said that the public are fed a line about pilot input because the public don't trust autopilot. Once autopilot is engaged he doesn't have to have any input, but they run checks and keep an eye on things. Some airlines will give an altitude setting before autopilot is engaged but that is being phased out.

And don't forget, pilots have egos, they're never going to admit they're not needed on the deck

Kwacky wrote:@Kiwi - that's from my mate who flies commercial. Pilots still prefer to do the take off and landings but both are usually done on auto with pilot input. From memory they have to land the aircraft on autopilot a certain number of times. It's a requirement.

He said that the public are fed a line about pilot input because the public don't trust autopilot. Once autopilot is engaged he doesn't have to have any input, but they run checks and keep an eye on things. Some airlines will give an altitude setting before autopilot is engaged but that is being phased out.

And don't forget, pilots have egos, they're never going to admit they're not needed on the deck

Interesting info mate, I was never in commercial aviation so my knowledge is pretty limited.

I'd love autodrive cars. Driving a car bores me. I'd love to be able to just sit there and watch a film, read a book (who am I kidding) or whatever during my commute to work when using the car.