In, out or shake it all about?

[duke63]

So do we stay in the EU or not?

Whilst there are a lot of issues with the EU and the way its run, to not be in it and have no say on anything with regards are major trading partners could be disastrous IMHO, particularly as it appears China's economy may be about to go completely pear-shaped. UK companies will have to adhere to EU law if they wish to trade within the EU regardless of whether we remain in or not.

Immigration is a huge world problem and i dont see us not being in the EU will make a scrap of difference to that as there are plenty of people in the UK now who shouldn't be here yet the powers that be do nothing to remove them.

Plus the EU has, on the whole, kept peace in Europe since WW2 which is something its impossible to put a value on.

[Jack]

UK companies will have to adhere to EU law if they wish to trade within the EU regardless of whether we remain in or not.

Not strictly true , the goods and services supplied have to comply with EU regulations when sold in member States , the way the company is run , how they treat and pay their employees ,pay their taxes (hahahaha) , deal with other companies etc would be governed by UK law, leaving would enable us to trade with whoever we please there would be no restriction as we currently have on dealing with Commonwealth nations, a group of some 52 nations who collectively have a larger turnover and fewer costs than the EU , an organisation of far fewer States that is so corrupt that they haven't been able to produce a set of verifiable accounts for the last 14 years .

[Kwacky]

In

Workers and workers rights for a start. The Tories will bring in a UKIP style policy when it comes to workers rights if we leave the EU, which means none.

[C00kiemonster]

Stay in.

If Britain leaves it will be an economic disaster. Going further with European integration - no. Leaving it now - economic suicide and no double checks on what the gov does.

That's why Gove wants out - so they can be even more right wing....

[duke63]

In

Workers and workers rights for a start. The Tories will bring in a UKIP style policy when it comes to workers rights if we leave the EU, which means none.

That is one of my biggest concerns too.

Some of the legislation mooted for HMRC and the powers they will have are quite frightening...but i bet none of it will be a requirement for big multinational companies if this government have their way.

[D6Nutz]

Much as I'd live to say, get out. The only sensible decision is to stay part of it.

For me the only part that really grates is the huge amounts of money passed to the EU as part of the membership and the amount of control they have over or countries fiscal policies.

For a country working hard to recover from recession it's quite an unfair burden on the tax payers.

But, to be honest I wish our politicians would look closer to home for problems to solve. In our district we are facing severe cut backs in public services. However all council members are enjoying pay rises and no cut backs on company car allowances or pensions...

[Perkles]

I don't to pretend to understand the in and outs but I do think this government has been let of its leash and are becoming a nasty bunch of fookers. if staying in reigns them in a bit it's good news imo

[dogbot]

In.

[T.C.]

Out. When we joined the common market back in 72/73, (Many of you are probably too young to remember unlike some of us) the principal was fine from a trading point of view, but over the years con elected politicians have taken away our sovereignty and the £55million a day it costs us to be a member would remove the need for many if not all the cuts that have been implemented.

We put far more n than we get out of it, and we should be alowed to decide our own fate.

If it went back to just the old common market, then fine, but we need to get out as soon as possible IMO. Europe needs us more than we need them.

I read the other day that Germany alone makes something like over £8 billion a year from sales to the UK, France about £6 billion and they are more worried about the job losses that wuld affect them than would affect the UK

[Kwacky]

Closing tax evasion loopholes would cover the deficit.

That UKIP figure of £55m per day is gross, not net.

The UK also gets money in from the EU, a lot of which supports our farmers.

Don't forget we're entitled to a lot we don't claim, the recent flooding for example we decided not to take from the relief fund.

Which laws do you think we would introduce if we left that we can't bring in now?

[StMarks]

I see that the news is hammering on about “Boris” today. IMHO this sounds like a ploy; They are setting him up as being staunchly Out, but he will “carefully consider” & then, due to “the concessions Cameron has negotiated” will announce that he thinks we should stay in after all. The expectation being that people who are undecided & do not fully understand all the implications (let’s face it, who does) will assume his deliberations equate to the consideration that they should be giving to the subject themselves. Therefore following his lead will save all that effort & “must be correct”

Isn’t the main problem that no one knows what will happen, because no nation has ever left.? It could be fine and we may negotiate some excellent trade deals, or it could be an epic disaster with thousands of jobs lost, financial institutions and companies exiting the UK due to it becoming isolated and too expensive.

If leaving were a success, then other countries will see that and leave too, effectively our action would destroy the EU. (Of course that means that if we leave, it is in the interest of all the other countries that we fail.! )


Fwiw my default approach to considering situations like this is to look at the extremes of each option, to help me get a better overview.:

As a species we started in family groups, then clustered into tribes. Those tribes aligned to become nations. Surely the next step logically is for the nations to become amalgamated.?

If we were to visit another planet inhabited by a species at a similar level of development, wouldn’t we expect to be able to liase with them as a whole rather than lots of separate sectors.?

The “Federation” has effectively begun, long may may The farce be with us.

The family group we started with will have been governed by an Alpa (fe)male. Each enlargement of that government will have harmonised the freedoms & treatment across the enlarging societies. However, inevitably, it also distances the governing authority ever further as the group becomes larger.

So, logically we must/will become a planet with one government, but are we ready & is this the way to start.? Also, how can we apply that government without it becoming high handed & remote.?

Lastly the immigration situation is being used by the “Out” body, but whilst we may well feel it as a threat, as I see it that is not what our vote is about.?

[duke63]

IMHO, There would be very little change in Immigration laws if we left. You can be certain that it is in Britian's interest to continue to allow free movement of EU citizens in and out of the UK.

Listening to the radio earlier and one of the aid workers at the Calais camps was saying why they were trying to claim UK asylum for the children in the camp. Apparently its much harder to claim asylum in France than in the UK, which is nothing to do with EU law but purely down to National laws so we could be tougher now but choose not to...despite what Farage and his fellow loonies may claim.

[kiwikrasher]

Which option makes it cheaper to post bike parts from the UK to Australia... cause I want that option

[StMarks]

Boris says OUT,
lol Well, that told me then.

So, I guess his thirst for power overcame his "corporate loyalty".....whistle

Time will tell.



Either way, I bet he's not in the Piggy Fiddler's best books tonight.

[Blade]

I'm confused. In, out shake it all about so is the referendum thingy were having in June just a big national Hokey Cokey Dance off or have I got the wrong end of the stick

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSUSXx2Zg-A[/video]

[Cav]

Can there be an option for Undecided?

[StMarks]

Can there be an option for Undecided?

Can that be an option on the actual voting form.?

[kiwikrasher]

Boris says OUT,
lol Well, that told me then.

So, I guess his thirst for power overcame his "corporate loyalty".....whistle

Time will tell.



Either way, I bet he's not in the Piggy Fiddler's best books tonight.

Regardless, I enjoyed that post of yours, I do enjoy your philosophical views on life.

[duke63]

Boris says OUT,
lol Well, that told me then.

So, I guess his thirst for power overcame his "corporate loyalty".....whistle

Time will tell.



Either way, I bet he's not in the Piggy Fiddler's best books tonight.

You would think that Farage, Johnson and George Galloway all being on the OUT side would make any sane person vote the other way.

[Monty]

Boris says OUT,
lol Well, that told me then.

So, I guess his thirst for power overcame his "corporate loyalty".....whistle

Time will tell.



Either way, I bet he's not in the Piggy Fiddler's best books tonight.

You would think that Farage, Johnson and George Galloway all being on the OUT side would make any sane person vote the other way.

Most will, I predict 66%