There's never a copper around when you need one

[Kwacky]

but there is when you don't

Slip road on to the A435 heading towards the M42. You go round an Indian restaurant on the left then have to hammer it as the slip road on to the main road is short. The bloke in the left lane isn't moving, so I twist the wrist, sail past him on his left and pass a car going slow in the right lane. I'm doing a good speed but I back off as the traffic queues for the motorway can be a mile long there and you can't see it due to the bend.

I know that the black car drops to the left lane when I undertake him.

When I start backing off I see the flashing lights in my mirrors. Shit.

There's no where to pull over so for about 1/2 mile I'm doing 50mph with a police car behind me and everyone is overtaking having a good look.

Thankfully he's on his own and he's a decent bloke. My heart was going and I had practiced my excuses. He asked me why he pulled me over. I shrugged, He said it was for teh undertake. I explained that the car blocked me so I had to get by and I wa carrying some speed. He said there was enough room for me to join the road and to back off without having to undertake him.

But he's very reasonable. He's already run my details and knows the bike has recently had an MOT. I carry my licence which I volunteer. He taps the number plate and asks if that was on when I got my MOT. I said it's the same plate from when I bought the bike and I've not changed it.

The copper told me to take it easy and to back off the speed. He must have been on something as he said I look "respectable"

So it's fair to say I shat myself, but got a good copper.

So if you see a black 5 series 13 plate with a bald middle aged bloke, don't undertake it.

[T.C.]

So given that there is no offence of undertaking, and it is unlikely that he would ever secure a conviction for careless driving, what was his real reason for stopping you?

Were you on a multiple lane carriageway? If so, what was he doing hogging the middle our outside lane?

There are still too many coppers out there who think that undertaking is illegal. I love it when they stop me as they have done in the past for the same thing....

[Kwacky]

He was overtaking the car in Lane 1. There are two lanes there.

Without incriminating myself there's also the speed element as well.

To be honest he was very polite and civil. He didn't come across as a job's worth. I suspect it's that time of year when they know a lot of people are wheeling their bikes out of the garage for the first time in months.

Don't they do you for driving without dare care or careless driving?

[T.C.]

Don't they do you for driving without dare care or careless driving?

The absolute offence for nearside overtake (or undertaking) was removed from the statute books with the introduction of the 1972 Road Traffic Act.

That only leaves the option of careless or dangerous driving, however...... To secure a conviction for either of these offences, it has to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt that the standard of driving or riding fell below tat expected of a reasonably safe and competent rider or driver.

The simple act of a nearside overtake is insufficient, bearing in mind that anyone who hogs the centre or outside lanes (lanes 2 or 3) when not overtaking commits the absolute offence of driving without reasonable considertation for other road users, and this offence is a sub section of section 3 of the 1988 Road Traffic Act of careless driving.

However, if the rider weaves from lane to lane at high speed, so for example going from lane 1 to lane 3 and back to lane 1 at 90mph, then there may well be a case for the rider to be reported for dangerous driving which would ten probably get reduced to careless driving.

[Kwacky]

Yep, I appreciate that.

As I said, I have no problem with getting pulled to get a friendly reminder there are police about and given my speed I'm happy that my licence remains points free.

[duke63]

Still think we learn more from a copper who is happy to point out why we shouldn't be doing something than by someone who immediately wants to book you.

[rocket]

while you could look at what you did as wrong I think there a lot more pressing matters on our roads at the moment GET PEOPLE OFF THERE SODDING PHONES.

[T.C.]

Still think we learn more from a copper who is happy to point out why we shouldn't be doing something than by someone who immediately wants to book you.

Which I agree with, providing you are doing something wrong in the first place and therefore being given valid advice.

Being told or suggesting that undertaking is illegal is incorrect. Advice on speeding (depending on how far over the limit), fair enough

[Rossgo]

I think the police officer is decent bloke, we need more around like him, just even for a friendly chit chat about certain moves on the road and make sure you were a person who was decent too ie not a d&#?head rider who was going to mouth off at him because he pulled you. I think some of these people who do get pulled bring up their own problems, look at road wars. I remember in Langley there was film crew (road wars) and a undercover 5 series who pulled over a driver...s&%t hit the fan when they did, had to restrain him! Sometimes it's nice to know the old bill are checking people, for all he knew you could of been unlicensed criminal who just nicked the bike! I hope you weren't late to work!!

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Kwacky]

It was last night so I was on the way home.

I think you're right about the attitude. I'm always polite with them, no point winding up someone who could be the bigger arsehole and throw the book at you. I could have been done for the plate if he wanted to.

[T.C.]

look at road wars. I remember in Langley there was film crew (road wars)

The main feature of that programme was Pat Knight who was an old crew mate of mine when we were based at Marlow and then he became my opposite number at Taplow when I was at Reading but we were part of the same traffic area. (Langley is in Thames Valley for those of you wondering).

His Dad was the Chief Constable of BT Police at the time.

Pat is now retired, but he was a good lad. I still remember his collar number - 845

[T.C.]

It was last night so I was on the way home.

I think you're right about the attitude. I'm always polite with them, no point winding up someone who could be the bigger arsehole and throw the book at you. I could have been done for the plate if he wanted to.

When I served, my attitude was always treat others how I myself would like to be treated regardless of what sort of arse hole or attitude they were or had, because at the end of the day we always had the last laugh of being able to slap a FPN on them or summons them to appear at court.

But, many coppers these days have lost the ablity to be civil or polite which inistself can wind people up.

I got pulled for undertaking on the M25 a few months ago when I was in the car. The copper came storming over and was ranting and raving about booking me for dangerous driving. When I asked him on what grounds he was going to secure a conviction for dangerous driving, he then started ranting on about undertaking being illegal and that constituted dangerous driving and he was going to make sure that I ost my licence for a long time.

So, I politely replied, "Fine, I look forward to my day in court and I will make an application for costs aganst Police".

He was going red in the face by now, so he then said something along the lines of what made me think I would get away with it.

So I turned it around and asked him to tell me the act and section that made undertaking illegal, what he had to prove to secure a conviction or dangerous or careless driving, and then asked why he was ignoring the centre lane hogs who were committing a specific offence?

This confused him because he was unable to answer the question (and this is a traffic cop). So he then said to me that I seemed to know a bit about the law and then saw the front of my car which had a NARPO (National Association of Retired Police Officers) and IPA (International Police Association) stickers in the windscreen.

He then went very quiet and said I suppose you were Traffic? So I gave him a quick rundown on my qualifications and what I do now as I gave him a quick law lesson.

To be fair, he took it on the chin and actually apologised, ut I made the point that his attitude would get peoples backs up, hos understanding of road traffic law was poor for a specialist, and that he gave his force a bad name.

Now I don't mention this to brag or appear big or anything like that, but to make the point that we no longer have professional traffic policemen anymore. Their knowledge of traffic law is quite low these days, but they will bully or frighten members of the public into believing that they have broken the law and their word is gospel and have an attitude issue.

Sorry, I will get off th soap box now

[Kwacky]

I got pulled about 14 years ago on the M6 for undertaking. Again I was doing a good speed.

The driver was a seasoned and sensible copper, the passenger a young twot. As the younger one started to rant and get all aggressive you could see the driver was getting a bit pissed off with his colleague.

The driver told me he had come out of the services, saw me riding in the middle lane and pass 3 cars to my right, which is true. He also reckoned he had to do over 120mph to catch me up. He went on to say that the video equipment wasn't working (which I doubted and questioned).

When I told them what I do for a living the young one got all cocky and tried making jokes about me having a day in court when I'm not being paid a fortune to attend (I do get pissed off when people seem to think all lawyers are millionaires).

I was in that car for about 20 minutes and stood my ground. I was calm and polite with the driver but in full lawyer mode with the passenger. The driver could see I was winding his mate up. They told me I would get an NIP in the next 14 days but the fact I wasn't given a producer made me feel it wasn't going any further.

[Blade]

I thought the officer had to give you the NIP there and then if he was intending to prosecute. Don't NIPS have 14 days to arrive by post if you are caught on a speed camera but if an actual officer pulls you over for an offence I was under the impression they served the NIP there and then.

Can someone clarify as I'm not sure myself so quite possibly what I have said is complete rubish.

[Kwacky]

If you are stopped by the Police, there is no obligation to issue a Notice of Intended Prosecution if you have been spoken to and cautioned for the offence. In this regard, if the Police Officer says something as basic as "you are nicked" or "you can argue that in Court", that will be regarded as adequate notice. The Police will be entitled to issue a Court Summons / Requisition immediately as they have already established your identity.

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/procedure ... cution.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure to be honest Blade. T.C. will know. That's all I could find on top of the 14 day rule.

[Blade]

Cheers Kwacky. Very interesting subject. As you say hopefully TC will clarify.

[Kwacky]

When I got pulled on the Sprint RS I called my mate who is a partner specialising in criminal law. He didn't mention to me about getting the NIP in person. He told me about the 14 day rule but nothing else.

[T.C.]

If you are stopped on the roadside, then you should be given a verbal NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) as part of the reporting process. So he/she will say " You will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for the offences of..........." He will then give you the long or formal caution "You are not obliged to say anything,....................."

If you are given a verbal NIP, there is no requirement to give you or send you a written NIP.

If however, for whatever reason you are not given the verbal NIP, then a written version must be sent out to you be sent so that it has a reasonable chance of arriving with you within 14 days of the alleged offence having been committed.

Once it is in the post it is deemed as having been served, so even if it does not arrive within the 14 days it does not always mean that it has been sent illegally. You need to check the date on the actual NIP as well as the postmark.

There are exceptions to when an NIP needs to be given, for example after an accient where you know that you were involved in a crash, but as I said, stopped at the side of the road, verbal NIP is sufficient, caught by a camera or other allegation, then written NIP sent out within 14 days of alleged offence, but bear in mind exemptions and the fact that not every offence requires an NIP.

One last point. The fact that you have been given a verbal NIP or sent a written NIP does not mean that you are going to be prosecuted. It says what it means on the tin, that "Consideration" will be given as to whether to decide to prosecute, not that you will be prosecuted.

I hope that answers the question clearly for you?

[Blade]

Very helpful and informative. Thanks TC

[Blade]

FAO Kwacky