Changes to Benefits

[Monty]

I'd say you're being overly kind to them Kwacky. They make me physically sick

[StMarks]

The general decision making process with this government, is ..

Will this have any impact on my family and friends?

Can I make money from this?....

That ^ sums it up pretty much IMHO

I'm not sure if you've missed my point. In India jobs are created that aren't needed...

Rather than the UK where we give people a sum of money for doing nothing/whatever they wish.?
Fwiw I don't believe I misunderstood. My Father set up a large engineering manufacturing infrastructure across India in the between the 70's-90's. He spent almost as much time working over there as in the UK. Although I've never even visited India myself, he told me a lot about the country, & I remember him explaining how one wage earner supports a pyramid of dependants.

.....Notwithstanding that, they do have 10s of thousands of beggars though, temples giving away food, people living hand to mouth, and people living in abject poverty. The sick and disabled are left to their own devices. So you're happy for that to come to the UK?

As I posted earlier, morally a support structure is obviously preferable. However, human nature being as it is, doesn't that same support structure removes the incentive to strive.?

[Kwacky]

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying because some people abuse the benefits system, everyone should lose out and benefits should be withdrawn? Once that happens everyone will find work?

You are aware that unemployment existed before the Welfare Reforms made in the 1940s, aren't you? In fact there was a really bad case of it in the 1930s.

[StMarks]

So, if I understand you correctly......

It appears I must have been misrepresenting my views, if that is what you believe.
Sorry for that Kwacky.

[duke63]

Well, it's hardly going to change without voting???

I think many, if not most politicians get into politics with the best of intentions, albeit with different avenues of achieving their goals in mind...let's face it, no-one realistically wants other peoples lives to be crappy...at least I don't, and that's why I should prolly run for office.

VOTE DARREN!!!

That depends on whether I believe voting makes a difference. Sadly i no longer believe it does anymore.

My way of thinking is voting for the system means nothing will change.

Look at the Sun newspaper today trying to change voting habits by attempting to make people believe they know what the Queen said. I sincerely hope this makes me people vote the other way just to spite their lies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35762443" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kwacky]

No need to apologise, that's the problem with the written word, sometimes it doesn't convey the way you intend.

[Perkles]

I've just been told in a robotic conference ,robots are needed because of the aging workforce in Japan.Feck knows what the youngsters are doing but that's what the japs just told me
This government has been let of its leash and is becoming to hard on the needy.I have had long periods of unemployment and would have taken any job and asked for nothing,some people genuinely need to claim benefits
http://www.universal-robots.com/blog/man-vs-machine/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[StMarks]

..VOTE DARREN!!!

I would never have believed that the phrase "Vote Trump" could be considered preferable.

As so often D41, you've opened my eyes,!

......I have had long periods of unemployment and would have taken any job and asked for nothing,some people genuinely need to claim benefits....

Fwiw I'm certain that there is no argument with the fact that welfare serves an immensely valuable purpose for people in situations like that Perkles.
And Kwacky, I'm not defending the morality of a social system with " 10s of thousands of beggars ,,,,,,, people living hand to mouth,,,,,,, people living in abject poverty. The sick and disabled are left to their own devices......"
I was simply pointing out that it seems that removing those problems, and supporting the needs of all, that the drive & achievement of society seems to be fundamentally affected.?

[Kwacky]

There is certainly a change in work ethics and work culture in the UK. There is a small part of society where people think that working is for fools. The word "entitlement" gets banded around a lot these days but I do think that a lot of people have jumped on that bandwagon, and that includes those who rely on the benefit system.

But, thankfully, the problem is a small one.

For me the real issue is the lack of work available for the young. That needs to be tackled. If you can get people working when they leave school or college then you remove the culture of benefit dependency.

But back to the original point, I still feel that those with disabilities should get the higher rate of benefits.

[Monty]

But back to the original point, I still feel that those with disabilities should get the higher rate of benefits.

Absolutely they should, if they can't work and many can't why should they be forced to live in poverty and believe me they are. It's not a choice they make, it's the cards they're dealt.

What kind of society wouldn't look after these people? History has many examples.

[duke63]

Its the usual thing with anyone claiming anything.. those who abuse it destroy the system for those who are actually in need of help.

I wonder how many swing the lead playing the stress and depression card...but those who genuinely suffer with that condition get branded along with the liars and cheats who don't. I would guess stress and depression may well come under this banner.

I don't think disability should be used as an excuse not to work but equally they should not be forced to work in a totally inappropriate environment because they have no other way of supporting themselves.

I've seen some with quite severe disabilities working well ( and enjoying it too) when the job placement is right for them.

[Monty]

Its the usual thing with anyone claiming anything.. those who abuse it destroy the system for those who are actually in need of help.

No you're wrong (IMHO), those that run it destroy the system in the name of those that abuse it. So what if a tiny minority get something they are not entitled to.

Burglars burgle houses, shall we do away with houses because there are burglars?

[Kwacky]

https://speye.wordpress.com/2015/06/25/ ... unclaimed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In June 2011 HMRC also published a report stating that £8.344 billion per year in Tax Credits goes unclaimed. If that is the same this makes a staggering £24 billion in ‘welfare’ that goes unclaimed. £24 Billion is £66 million per day!

The issue of people getting benefits is a drop in the ocean compared to what could be paid out.

[duke63]

Its the usual thing with anyone claiming anything.. those who abuse it destroy the system for those who are actually in need of help.

No you're wrong (IMHO), those that run it destroy the system in the name of those that abuse it. So what if a tiny minority get something they are not entitled to.

Burglars burgle houses, shall we do away with houses because there are burglars?

Dont really agree with you there. It's not right that anyone should abuse the system. It's the same thinking that allows Facebook et al to abuse the tax system as long as the majority don't.

[Monty]

Its the usual thing with anyone claiming anything.. those who abuse it destroy the system for those who are actually in need of help.

No you're wrong (IMHO), those that run it destroy the system in the name of those that abuse it. So what if a tiny minority get something they are not entitled to.

Burglars burgle houses, shall we do away with houses because there are burglars?

Dont really agree with you there. It's not right that anyone should abuse the system. It's the same thinking that allows Facebook et al to abuse the tax system as long as the majority don't.

Of course its not right, but we shouldn't punish everyone because a few of a few @rseholes.

This government and the media has done a fantastic job (praise where it's due) of getting the whole country up in arms about benefit fraud and benefit scroungers. When in reality the actual cost to the tax payer is a nat's do dar.

[Monty]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/te ... ced-690027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[duke63]

Not really believing that the Mirror tells the real truth anymore than the Sun or the Mail. They all have a self serving political agenda.

[D41]

Some good points made by all here. although I can't be bothered to dither through all the links.

So what do I do here??.....I'm considered to be mentally disabled these days....do I NOT claim all I'm able to just to appease some vague & frankly idealistic views?? I claimed for years to help support my stepson and when SSI decided they had overpaid nearly went bankrupt paying back an error on their part.
There's inadequacies in the current system. as there is in anything. and it is always those that will receive the most attention...just as drivers will always remember the 3-4 riders out of a 100 who ride like dicks....OK, maybe more than 3-4, but you get the point.

[Monty]

[duke63]

I was reading about some of the changes they are making in today's paper.

Quite appalling that the new rules mean if you can use a stick to go the the lav. you now receive less points than before and are less likely to get at home help. Who makes these sort of shitty rules up?

I saw on facebook yesterday that many posters were outing those MPs who voted for the new rules and those same MPs were getting brassed off with the stick they were getting and were pleading not to be named. Tossers!