Botched execution

For all the none biking stuff. Say hello, chew the fat or flame the forum.
User avatar
duke63
Posts: 15500
Joined: 22 Oct 2013, 07:34
Your Bike: Ducati 748/853 & Triumph Street Triple 765RS
Location: Staffordshire
Has thanked: 4176 times
Been thanked: 4132 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by duke63 »

Kwacky wrote:I've said it before but it's clear that capital punishment does not prevent or deter crime
And there is the dilemma. If if doesn't deter from the crime then the punishment is little different to that dished out by the criminal in the first place.

Doesn't Ian Brady claim his life is a living hell and he would rather have been hanged?
User avatar
Deegee
Posts: 4206
Joined: 02 Apr 2014, 11:20
Your Bike: Daytona 675 & Tiger 900
Location: Côte d'Essex
Has thanked: 1046 times
Been thanked: 967 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Deegee »

I remember a lecturer covering capital punishment as part of our once week "General Studies" lesson at college when I was an Apprentice in the 70's, it was a proven fact then that a very large proportion of murders were one offs in the heat of the moment - arguments, crime of passion, extraordinary provocation etc, it was the case then that you couldn't deter those crimes as the murders weren't premeditated, no deterrent was going to work for those cases.
I remember a study showing that the percentage of reoffending murderers was extremely small, indicating the people involved had learned to avoid the circumstances that can lead to murder.

Having said all this, the savage within me would still be looking for revenge if someone killed one of my family.
User avatar
Blade
Posts: 18772
Joined: 14 Mar 2014, 18:43
Your Bike: Kawasaki ZX10R
Location: North West
Has thanked: 3134 times
Been thanked: 3767 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Blade »

Kwacky wrote:I've said it before but it's clear that capital punishment does not prevent or deter crime
Perhaps not but its stop my taxes being wasted keeping sick monsters alive in relatively comfortable circumstances. Plus IMO some crimes deserve it. I understand not everyone will agree with that but for me some sick b@stards just need removing from this world for the good of all civil, decent, peaceful, lawful people.
User avatar
Kwacky
Posts: 38578
Joined: 21 Oct 2013, 21:52
Your Bike: Brutale 800RR, 1000SX Ninja
Location: Brum
Has thanked: 4324 times
Been thanked: 8361 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Kwacky »

I think it's a bit hard to justify legal murder for convicted criminals when those with a terminal illness can't request an end to their own suffering and assisting a suicide is still a criminal offence.
User avatar
C00kiemonster
Posts: 8438
Joined: 22 Oct 2013, 07:11
Your Bike: Triumph Street Triple 765 R
Location: Not Froggie Land
Has thanked: 4305 times
Been thanked: 1740 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by C00kiemonster »

Kwacky wrote:I think it's a bit hard to justify legal murder for convicted criminals when those with a terminal illness can't request an end to their own suffering and assisting a suicide is still a criminal offence.
Good point. I'd vote for that.
User avatar
Blade
Posts: 18772
Joined: 14 Mar 2014, 18:43
Your Bike: Kawasaki ZX10R
Location: North West
Has thanked: 3134 times
Been thanked: 3767 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Blade »

My opinion for what little worth it has would be allow people suffering horrible illness to request they are allowed to make their own decisions on their future exsist and for child rapists to be executed which personally I don't see as murder as if the law was changed it would be legal justice IMO.
User avatar
Kwacky
Posts: 38578
Joined: 21 Oct 2013, 21:52
Your Bike: Brutale 800RR, 1000SX Ninja
Location: Brum
Has thanked: 4324 times
Been thanked: 8361 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Kwacky »

So if a man has sex, with both parties consenting to it, with a 15 year old girl who looks 18 and she said she was 17 then he should be executed? Because that's rape according to the law as she's too young to give consent.
User avatar
Blade
Posts: 18772
Joined: 14 Mar 2014, 18:43
Your Bike: Kawasaki ZX10R
Location: North West
Has thanked: 3134 times
Been thanked: 3767 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Blade »

No and it never could be as black and white as you want to make it seem and personally I would see the girl you describe as a young woman not a child.

I was referring to the case in the thread where someone raped an 11 month old child. The decision on execution would rest with a judge after a jury had past a guilt verdict and obviously their is a right to appeal. I would be more than happy with such a scenario and your perfectly entitled to see it differently as the above is just my opinion.
Last edited by Blade on 01 May 2014, 09:47, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
StMarks
Posts: 4585
Joined: 17 Mar 2014, 21:55
Your Bike: Daytona 675 graphite
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Has thanked: 918 times
Been thanked: 1314 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by StMarks »

Blade wrote:My opinion for what little worth it has would be allow people suffering horrible illness to request they are allowed to make their own decisions on their future exsist and for child rapists to be executed which personally I don't see as murder as if the law was changed it would be legal justice IMO.
I agree (we discussed it not long ago) that the way we treat our dying is selfish & myopic. Changing it, however, will be highly problematic.
It is easy to see the arguments against state execution. But if you ignore the fact that it is unlikely to deter those "child rapists" that you mention, and simply see it as economical revenge then perhaps the argument becomes simpler.?
As long as you can be comfortable with "Two wrongs..."

Society is changing dramatically. I wonder how long it will be before death penalty decisions & permission for euthanasia are all just made by tweets from the masses .?
Last edited by StMarks on 01 May 2014, 13:00, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Blade
Posts: 18772
Joined: 14 Mar 2014, 18:43
Your Bike: Kawasaki ZX10R
Location: North West
Has thanked: 3134 times
Been thanked: 3767 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Blade »

IMO child rapists cannot change they are sick individuals with incurable mental health issues therefore removing convicted ones removes the opportunity for them to repeat offend.

Regards living with two wrongs, again its only my personal opinion but for me no problem at all some crimes IMO are justifiable in warranting execution even if only for revenge / justice depending on how you view it.
User avatar
Kwacky
Posts: 38578
Joined: 21 Oct 2013, 21:52
Your Bike: Brutale 800RR, 1000SX Ninja
Location: Brum
Has thanked: 4324 times
Been thanked: 8361 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Kwacky »

As you say it's all about opinions. I'm simply setting out why I think executing someone is never the answer. I'm not asking you to agree with me.

I don't think it's right nor is it fair to ask one person, the Judge, to decide if someone should live or die for their crime.

There's a lot of very good information about the cost of the death penalty but most of it is US based. It's estimated in California that $250 million dollars a year could be saved in taxes if they got rid of the death penalty and replaced it with a life without release system. A death row prisoner in that state costs $90,000 more a year to look after and house

California has spent more than $4 billion on capital punishment since it was reinstated in 1978 (about $308 million for each of the 13 executions carried out)

California spends an additional $184 million on the death penalty per year because of the additional costs of capital trials, enhanced security on death row, and legal representation.
http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then there are the trial costs:-

Defending a death penalty case costs about four times as much as defending a case where the death penalty is not sought, according to a new study by the Kansas Judicial Council. Examining 34 potential death-penalty cases from 2004-2011, the study found that defense costs for death penalty trials averaged $395,762 per case, compared to $98,963 per case when the death penalty was not sought.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So ignoring the emotional arguments for revenge killings, the costs alone are enough to ensure that we never have the death penalty. If the death penalty came in then money would have to be taken away from areas such as health, emergency services, schools.

Unless you're happy to pay more tax to support it?

As I say, I'm just putting my side of the argument forward.
User avatar
Blade
Posts: 18772
Joined: 14 Mar 2014, 18:43
Your Bike: Kawasaki ZX10R
Location: North West
Has thanked: 3134 times
Been thanked: 3767 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by Blade »

We all have our own opinions and that's a good thing. I'm happy to respect yours and I know you are mine. I'm sure there are some very good comments against what I suggest but for me it's just a given that baby rapists die and die painfully. I don't want or expect any agreement its just my opinion nothing more nothing less.
bb41
Posts: 778
Joined: 14 Mar 2014, 15:00
Your Bike: GSXR750
Location: oxford
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 176 times

Re: Botched execution

Post by bb41 »

Many years ago i was pro capital punishment and probably said many a time I'd be happy to push the button as it were.

Now I'm anti death penalty. Why ? because the places where it exists still have a high and vicious crime rate so deterrent it isn't .

I'm not sure why people think that this is the way forward as you have to be one sick mother to do what some of these people have done. Unless it's gang land related when as far as I'm concerned if they join that game they play by those rules. So these type of evil men/woman need whatever demons they have attended to to make other inmates safe whilst in carceration

The length of time these people stay in prison before execution date and the money it costs setting out all the appeals probably far outweighs the cost of life in prison anyway

For these type of criminals they will be never released , and if as some say they didn't do it then they can spend the time doing a law degree and set out to prove other wise. They have plenty of time.

As a mother then yes if someone hurt my family I would pummel the person into dust but that is an emotional reaction and most would be the same.

A friend of mine was murdered on a platform in London by 2 youngsters who were high on drugs. He died pretty much instantly. His Mum who was my mums friend couldn't understand how forgiving she was especially as we had lost my brother not long before.

She said that if I spend the rest of my life seeking revenge then they might of killed me as well as life wouldn't be worth living anymore, but to forgive them or at least not think about them then I can move on a be a good mother to the rest of my children and grieve properly for the one they took away.



They have been released now and can't look forward to much of a future through their bad choices that evening. They will be punished forever .

But this is my own opinion and can certainly respect others that differ
Live each day as your last as one day you'll be right !!
Post Reply