Project Fear

[duke63]

I would say that those who don't pay tax in the same way and at the same rate as the majority are far more to blame for the state of the Country's finances than those who are workshy.

I know how my BiL and MiL has been treated by the system and frankly if anyone thinks the Govt hands out cash like water to those who are not in work, then they are very very deluded.

[Kwacky]

Asda employs 120,000 workers who needed help last year because their wages are so low.

Sainsbury employs 107.000 who rely on benefits

Tesco employs 209,000 low paid workers who rely on state benefits

Morrisons employs 83,000 people in the same situation.

We the tax payer are paying these large companies to employ staff. They all make millions in profit each year.

[StMarks]

.....
In my opinion you get a lot of influence from your parents, certainly early on in life.

The problem we've got now is that there are 2 or 3 generations of families who have never worked. Everything is provided for them by the state. The kids see no reason to do well at school and will follow the paths of their parents.

So how do you break that cycle?

I'm really not a fan of enforced labour in these circumstances (prison and community service I do think should force people to work).

It's a genuine question. I have no idea how the cycle can be broken.

Monty makes a very good point about workers relying on credit. You hear a lot of arguments against minimum wage and working wages, but the thing is we're paying for people to go to work while large companies are avoiding paying tax.

The system is very wrong.

Low taxes does not make a country poorer and it does not help the economy.
!

Entirely agree with the above.
Monty, I did point out that my opinions are subject to my own observations (& bigotries). I have no grounds for contesting that pretty chart that you rebuff me with whenever this subject rears it's ugly head. I can't know it's veracity (lies, true lies & ,,,,,,,,,,) & fundamentally I agree that tax evasion is an absurdity that should be given the highest priority, however two wrongs don't make a right.

[Cav]

the Govt hands out cash like water to those who are not in work, then they are very very deluded.

The system for ensuring the right people is entirely wrong. Those who need it don't get it and those who don't need it get WAY too much !!!

Too many people leave school knowing how to play the benefits system so they get pregnant, get a house, get £13000/year, want a bigger house, have another child, get even more money, want yet another bigger house, have another child, spend £1000s on birthday and christmas presents, spoil themselves with our hard earned money and give nothing back.

These people are what's wrong with our current system!

[Kwacky]

Cav, stories like that are peddled out by the media to make you turn against benefits and social welfare.

As Monty says, they are very few and far between. You'll also find that these families frequently have another source of income - cash in hand work, crime, drug dealing etc.

[Cav]

Cav, stories like that are peddled out by the media to make you turn against benefits and social welfare.

As Monty says, they are very few and far between. You'll also find that these families frequently have another source of income - cash in hand work, crime, drug dealing etc.

No, Kwacky. These are people I know of personally and some of which are unfortunately distant family. Friends of people I know do this too, one of which said to my face, "I'm pregnant again so I get to move into a 5-bed! Can't wait!". Absolutely disgusting that people get away with this.

There's a lot of shop lifting and drug dealing going on near me from these types of people.

[Monty]

The Tories have done this for years, just look at this tragic example of election campaigning from the 60s. They did it to the unionists, the miners, the unemployed and more recent immigrants and the disabled.

[Rossgo]

I agree a lot is to do with how you were brought up. Benefits are there to help not to live off.

The comment about government not just handing out money I agree with too. Not my personal experience but my soon to be FiL has got experience in this due to his line of work. It was a dark time for my misses family but now back to where he was, not as much but not to be sniffed at, no help just grit and determination. It's right it's not easy for people who earned money and then had issues

I'm just saying where I grew up and where I currently live. People aren't what they seem to be. Its easier when your in the system or know how to play the system, which I've seen both of. But if you are a hard working person the general jist is they believe you will find your way back into work and earning money.

Morrisons pay isn't that bad. However not enough for buying a home in the local area or to spend thousands on holidays etc. We budget. Some people don't and luxaries have become needs

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[Cav]

2 people in one household earning minimum wage bring in as much money as is in my household.

Okay I'm not strapped with cash but I bought my first home aged 23 with minimal help to cover a small shortfall in deposit. I paid for my 100% of my own wedding. I own a motorcycle and somewhat maintain an expensive hobby.

I took an apprenticeship at 18 earning £10,000 - I would have been better off back that working minimum wage by nearly 50%. It's paying off already.

[Blade]

Cav, stories like that are peddled out by the media to make you turn against benefits and social welfare.

As Monty says, they are very few and far between. You'll also find that these families frequently have another source of income - cash in hand work, crime, drug dealing etc.

I wish you and Monty were right Kwacky, I really do, but there is a part of society playing the game as Cav states and they play it well.

[Rossgo]

the Govt hands out cash like water to those who are not in work, then they are very very deluded.

The system for ensuring the right people is entirely wrong. Those who need it don't get it and those who don't need it get WAY too much !!!

Too many people leave school knowing how to play the benefits system so they get pregnant, get a house, get £13000/year, want a bigger house, have another child, get even more money, want yet another bigger house, have another child, spend £1000s on birthday and christmas presents, spoil themselves with our hard earned money and give nothing back.

These people are what's wrong with our current system!

You live next to me?? Genuinely this stuff happens, it's not the media at all

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[Kwacky]

I wish you and Monty were right Kwacky, I really do, but there is a part of society playing the game as Cav states and they play it well.

How is that people are so incensed at benefit claimants "playing the game" but are happy for tax dodgers and avoiders to carry on depriving the country of billions each year?

Can people not see how you're being led into hating the wrong people?

This makes my blood boil. You use Starbucks, Boots, Amazon then complain about the lack of GPs, the state of the roads and not enough police on the streets.

There's over £30billion missing each year and you've been told be angry at an unemployed bloke with kids living in social housing.

The media are owned by overseas companies who avoid tax and they want to keep it that way.

[C00kiemonster]

Its like reading the Daily Mail this thread

[Kwacky]

Its like reading the Daily Mail this thread

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous reply.

[C00kiemonster]

Its like reading the Daily Mail this thread

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous reply.

Honourable

[Rossgo]

I agree they should pay their taxes but is that going to change? We can change peoples thinking, start with what is clearly something so small and then build our way up to the companies, bare in mind companies almost always get their grubby mits into producing these laws and legislations, so that will take a long time to change.

People who live off the working man we could change and get them into either their first job or back into work. Cleaners, street sweepers, food services etc. I'd much rather see my beighbours doing their share than seeing a billion pound company paying their taxes who are employing a 1000+ people in their head offices all the way to cleaners or plumbers working in their offices etc.

But that's my opinion.

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[Rossgo]

Its like reading the Daily Mail this thread

You read that dribble?!

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[Kwacky]

That company might be employing hundreds of people, but that company is a bigger scrounger from the state than Declan and Shaznay in their council flat.

The company employs people who have been brought up using government money - hospitals, GPs, school, roads, etc. If there's a theft or an accident that company will rely on the police, fire and ambulance service. The company has paid for none of that. But it relies on it.

And because the company refuses to pay its way it's left to you and me to pay for it.

And yes, you can make a difference. Stop using the companies who avoid tax. It's worked in other countries.

[Monty]

Cav, stories like that are peddled out by the media to make you turn against benefits and social welfare.

As Monty says, they are very few and far between. You'll also find that these families frequently have another source of income - cash in hand work, crime, drug dealing etc.

I wish you and Monty were right Kwacky, I really do, but there is a part of society playing the game as Cav states and they play it well.

Yes, these people exist, but their numbers are smaller than we perceive and the cost to society is very small. This "underclass" will always exist, so just let it go. They probably pay more tax on booze and fags than google, plus 100% of that money goes back into the communities.

I got chatting to a biker the other day at Monsal head and he was bragging about how little tax he paid from working overseas. He was a little shocked when I suggested he **** off and rides on some roads he'd paid for.

My brother-in-law and sister-in-law both work offshore and pay dick all TAX. But it doesn't stop them coming back and using hospitals, infrastructure and schools for their kids. They even have the **** cheek to claim child benefit.

These are the people saffing off the state, not this minority underclass.

[C00kiemonster]

Its like reading the Daily Mail this thread

You read that dribble?!

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No, but i have dipped into one or two occasionally and some of the crap they make up in that rag is being repeated in this thread thats for sure.