Did anyone see BGT tonight?

[T.C.]

I am not usually a fan of Britains got talent, but if any of you know the story of Police Dog Finn and his handler Dave Wardle from Hertfordshire, then you will know the story of how Finn saved the life of Dave despite sustaining multiple stab wounds.

https://www.fabulousfinn.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am proud to know them both

The injuries to Finn were regarded as criminal damage and the offender received a slap on the writs

Long story short (read the article) fortunately Finn made a full recovery and this led to the campaign for Finns Law where it has just been made law that any injury caused to a service animal will be regarded the same as assulting a person.

Anyway, tonight if you did not see it, Dave and Finn won the semi final of BGT and will now be on the live final on Sunday night.

Anyway, if you fancy helping a brave dog get the recognition he deserves, then a vote for him on Sunday will be greatly appreciated.

[D41]

It's a great story, but I think having a service animal given the same status as a police officer might be unwise. I mean...they have the honorary title of "canine-police-officer" (or however it's termed), and I get that. BUT...a police dog is a piece of property ---- it's not a person. This runs the risk of backfiring on the human handler when a criminal no longer has to differentiate between the two.

[Kwacky]

It's not a show I watched. I'll check it out.

[T.C.]

they have the honorary title of "canine-police-officer" (or however it's termed), and I get that. BUT...a police dog is a piece of property ---.

To the first point, that might apply in the USA and other countries, but the term Canine Police Officer or similar has never been used here in the UK, and certainly not since I joined the Police service in 1975. Police dog yes, but thats it. Maybe a different term was applied prior to 1975. I will check with my father who joined the job in 1957.

The whole point of Finns law was to differentiate that they are not just property, and you are probably the first person I have heard say that (other than criminals who have been bitten in their attempts to get away after a crime).

The man who inflicted the injuries was given nothing more than a slap on the wrist and was not even required to pay towards the cost of surgery and treatment which ran into thousands of pounds.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with your comments, and I am not a dog lover per se as I am allergic to them.

[TriumphFan]

PDs or police dogs are very much considered colleagues, especially when injured or killed on duty.

They do their job without question, and with the sole goal to protect their partner.

I don’t believe they are property either, in the same way our spaniel is not owned by us, but a part of our family.

Just saying of course,


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[kiwikrasher]

Totally disagree with you D41. Civilian dogs while have the legal status of property are rarely treated as such and are generally part of the family or a trusted companion. Ownership imo is to deem a human responsible for the animals conduct and wellbeing. That shouldn’t divorce them of their rights and to be classed in the same vein as inanimate property.

A criminal assault against a police dog or other service dog should be treated with the same vigour as an assault on their handler. In many circumstances it’s only the presence of the dog that prevents the assault on the handler anyway. The intent of the offender is there and criminal intent weighs heavily in sentencing.

In NZ it is a 5 year jail term for killing a police dog.

[D41]

In NZ it is a 5 year jail term for killing a police dog.

What's the punishment for killing a police officer?

[T.C.]

In NZ it is a 5 year jail term for killing a police dog.

What's the punishment for killing a police officer?

These days, a short holiday at her majesties pleasure where they get 5 star accomodation and facilities, a slap on the wrist and told not to be a naughty boy (or girl) ever again

[D41]

I don't think they ever see the light of day again over here. Although I'm sure it carries a lot of weight "on the yard".

[StMarks]

....These days, a short holiday at her majesties pleasure where they get 5 star accomodation and facilities, a slap on the wrist and told not to be a naughty boy (or girl) ever again...

You neglected to mention that the (very costly, to us the taxpayers) Full board accommodation with en-suite facilities etc where they reside, also ensures they are introduced a network of experienced & knowledgable felons so that they can be sure to have plenty of opportunities when they are released back onto us.

[D41]

I'm guessing the en-suite facilities aren't anything like a 5-star rating...even in "Inmate Quarterly", or whatever it is that they read/wipe with.

[StMarks]

I'm guessing the en-suite facilities aren't anything like a 5-star rating...even in "Inmate Quarterly", or whatever it is that they read/wipe with.

All things are relative, arn't they.?
So, compared to the 320,000 homeless without even a roof over their heads, or the 3000 people who do, but die each year as a result of "fuel poverty" precluding them from living properly in the homes they have,,,
By comparison, Uk prisoners are veritably pampered ?

[D41]

I get where you're coming from, I really do, but someone living homeless on the street is for the main part out of reach of the govt., assistance programs, etc.
You're housing someone...be they incarcerated or otherwise, then there's a duty-of-care, a responsibility that's taken on. And that's something that just doesn't apply to the homeless, or to people living in their own private homes.

[StMarks]

I get where you're coming from, I really do, but someone living homeless on the street is for the main part out of reach of the govt., assistance programs, etc.
You're housing someone...be they incarcerated or otherwise, then there's a duty-of-care, a responsibility that's taken on. And that's something that just doesn't apply to the homeless, or to people living in their own private homes.

The two basic motivation incentives are "Carrot" and "Stick". If prisons are not serving as "the stick", then shouldn't it be considered that they are not fit for purpose ?
If they are a preferable environment where the inmates can play on their phones all they want, are fed 3x meals a day, homed in comfortable & sanitary conditions & have no bills, tasks or responsibilities to be concerned with--- then logically prisons are actually becoming an expensive carrot ??

I think we should hold TC to account, for all those he had been responsible for gifting such a cosseted lifestyle.

[T.C.]

I get where you're coming from, I really do, but someone living homeless on the street is for the main part out of reach of the govt., assistance programs, etc.
You're housing someone...be they incarcerated or otherwise, then there's a duty-of-care, a responsibility that's taken on. And that's something that just doesn't apply to the homeless, or to people living in their own private homes.

When I was a young copper not long in the job, there was a homeless chap who frequented the town I worked in.

Every year about 2 days before Christmas he would cause thousands of pounds of criminal damage, he would get arrested and put before the courts the following day and he would get sent down, maybe for a month or so.

He knew that he would get fed and watered 3 times a day, a shower, a comfortable bed (relative term) and some TV over the festive period before getting released..

His attitude was that being in prison was infinitely better than being out on the streets.

Some of the inmates are not as stupid as they would have you believe.

Reading prison was renowned for all its creature comforts, and there is one which even has an Olympic size swimming pool and world class gymnasium.

[T.C.]

I think we should hold TC to account, for all those he had been responsible for gifting such a cosseted lifestyle.

I spent all my service bar my two years probation as a youngster on Traffic.

I left the majority of imprisoning to the superstars AKA CID and the Detectives.

I just took people off the road and spent a lot of time down the Mortuary.

[D41]

When I was a young copper not long in the job, there was a homeless chap who frequented the town I worked in.

Every year about 2 days before Christmas he would cause thousands of pounds of criminal damage, he would get arrested and put before the courts the following day and he would get sent down, maybe for a month or so.

He knew that he would get fed and watered 3 times a day, a shower, a comfortable bed (relative term) and some TV over the festive period before getting released..

His attitude was that being in prison was infinitely better than being out on the streets.

Some of the inmates are not as stupid as they would have you believe.

Reading prison was renowned for all its creature comforts, and there is one which even has an Olympic size swimming pool and world class gymnasium.

Oh for sure.....they know how to work the system to some extent....I doubt you'll ever be able to quash that element.
My thoughts pretty much just run as far as "they're off the streets" and that's that. What they do while inside I honestly don't care about too much....the sex offender can no longer offend (at least not with someone worth worrying about), the thief can no longer steal, & so on.

You would know better than me what the chances are of someone leaving prison & becoming a "productive member of society" are....but I'm guessing around 1 in 20 at best.

[T.C.]

You would know better than me what the chances are of someone leaving prison & becoming a "productive member of society" are....but I'm guessing around 1 in 20 at best.

You reckon as high as 1 in 20?

Blimey, you are optomistic aren't you?

[D41]

Well....that would be 5%. Realistically...maybe 3%?? And even that is after a few run-ins. And I'm borrowing those stats from addiction recovery, as the two nearly ALWAYS seem to be related.

[Rossgo]

I did watch BGT and to be fair this year was very good. It kept me and my misses guessing right up until the end. Fin and handler were amazing. I am a dog lover defo part of the family.

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