Ford Europe

[Blade]

I agree Jon your ex neighbours should be stopped and the unskilled labour we already have that refuses to work should be made to work rather than politician's justify bringing unskilled labour to the UK to do the jobs we won't.

As cookie rightly says this is a UK problem. We are too soft and too generous. There is a reason people want to come to the UK (its not the weather or cheap property) and a reason why we have second generation dossiers looking for hand outs.

[duke63]

You cannot force people to work, only encourage them to work or make it worthwhile. Nothing else will make it happen.

Why should employers suffer the shitty end of the stick because the Govt has produced a generation of unskilled and unmotivated people?

If people do not want to work, they just don't turn up or use every excuse in the book not to go in. I see it every single day. It is a massive burden on employers.

[Kwacky]

I'm pretty certain I've done a thread in the photo section about forced labour camps.

[D41]

[Blade]

Roll back a few decades and people used to que and even fight outside factories for the opportunity of a days work. That wasnt right ot ideal but people did have a work ethic is my point.

People used to want to work but agree government has created a section of society who feel above work.

[D41]

Why should employers suffer the shitty end of the stick because the Govt has produced a generation of unskilled and unmotivated people?

The Govt. didn't produce them, their parents did. And they're doing a pretty shitty job of it.

[Kwacky]

The education system is all wrong. It's all geared up on ideals set up in the 19th century. Lots of kids don't do well in school so they end up on the scrap heap.

The work ethic has dropped. There are too many factors involved to just blame parents. It's society as a whole that's getting lazy. People in the UK love convenience. I wonder how many 20 somethings can cook?

[D41]

The education system is all wrong. It's all geared up on ideals set up in the 19th century. Lots of kids don't do well in school so they end up on the scrap heap.

There's a lot of stuff you'll be taught that you'll never ever use in the adult world...you just won't. BUT! - That stuff does get you thinking independently, gets the mind stimulated ( or is supposed to, anyway).

[Kwacky]

But modern testing is the same as Victorian testing - memory based. People generally spoilt between free thinking or memory based thinking. My memory is appalling so according to school testing I'm thick.

[D41]

What kind of testing could not be memory based??

[Kwacky]

things like verbal reasoning and IQ tests are thinking based tests rather than memory recollection based tests

Most psychological based tests are thinking not memory.

Vocational orientated tests are thinking not memory tests.

Most tests aren't based on recollection.

[D41]

Memory tests are pretty good for helping with long term memory though.

IQ testing is a fairly level playing field, all things considered.

[duke63]

Our education system does not produce young adults ready and able for the modern working world. I don't believe that is the teachers fault, its the systems fault.

Business should have much more say in our education system otherwise it left to pricks like Gove to make the rules.

That's why so many go to Uni to learn skills that are actually useful and recognised for work.

[Rossgo]

But modern testing is the same as Victorian testing - memory based. People generally spoilt between free thinking or memory based thinking. My memory is appalling so according to school testing I'm thick.

I had an argument at work with a load of people the other month. I said our testing is all the same for every single person and worthless in my opinion

Eg

Participants

Elephant
Monkey
Rhino
Bird

Question

Claim the tree




They didn't seem to understand where I had an issue with our education system! We have a huge amount of people living around us now and not one, two people are the same!

I couldnt stand school. I have a serious issue with testing letting someone think that your whole life revolves around 1 single test at the end of your school life is not the correct illustration of what life is. You can be an F student but be a A* work with your hands type guy!



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[Monty]

But modern testing is the same as Victorian testing - memory based. People generally spoilt between free thinking or memory based thinking. My memory is appalling so according to school testing I'm thick.

I had an argument at work with a load of people the other month. I said our testing is all the same for every single person and worthless in my opinion

Eg

Participants

Elephant
Monkey
Rhino
Bird

Question

Claim the tree

They didn't seem to understand where I had an issue with our education system! We have a huge amount of people living around us now and not one, two people are the same!

I couldnt stand school. I have a serious issue with testing letting someone think that your whole life revolves around 1 single test at the end of your school life is not the correct illustration of what life is. You can be an F student but be a A* work with your hands type guy!

Spot on Ross, that's exactly the problem and exactly what my teaching friends and family say

[D41]

There's also the alternative view that how a person responds under pressure is a good indicator of how they will act when the pressure is off, yes??

I mean...no-one who does well in a test/exam complains about them, do they??

"Hey, I passed my exam!! - Exams suck, though!!"

Unlikely.

[Kwacky]

I disagree. I have no problem sitting tests and exams. I love interviews because I'm on the spot and under pressure.

If I'm not under pressure at work I'm a lazy sod.

[Monty]

I don't think that's what Ross meant, although he did mention exam stress. I think what he meant was, we're teaching elephants to climb trees and grading them on how well a monkey can do it.

[Cav]

I was "lucky enough" to go to a Grammar School because I passed the IQ based tests. I never really put all my effort into school and got nearly all B's at GCSE and completely flopped AS-levels before going to college and starting Engineering. At our school it was preached to us that we will get GSCEs, get A-levels and then get a degree in something we love at University - this clearly didn't work for me.

Engineering is a mixture of heavy maths, strong chemisty and physics, and good hand-skills. You don't have to be super academic and you don't have to be the best wood-worker in the school; it's the ability to combine the two that makes a good Engineer.

These very same skills wouldn't make me a great politician, policeman, shop fitter, plumber, etc, etc, etc... I found what I'm good at and I'll likely stick it out for a very long time. I'm lucky because I found all of this out by "failing" at my school.

The education system IS flawed and it is letting down thousands of children. I don't think the education system is the sole reason for all of this though as our world is a flat pack world - they get what they want with minimal effort: a few clicks, a few likes, a few downloads and they've achieved everything they THINK they want

[D41]

"flat pack world"......what does that mean??