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I know it's wrong

Posted: 05 Oct 2018, 09:21
by Kwacky
But why did I think of Little Britain when I saw the photo for the article?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45739335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image

But on a serious note, can't the Police stop shooting people?

And what are they doing administering strong drugs like that?

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 05 Oct 2018, 18:47
by StMarks
Kwacky wrote:But why did I think of Little Britain when I saw the photo for the article?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45739335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[img]
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpspr ... -index.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/img]

But on a serious note, can't the Police stop shooting people?

And what are they doing administering strong drugs like that?
Thank heavens that's over in Trumpton, not the UK.

Imo that is Manslaughter.!

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 05 Oct 2018, 20:12
by D41
The Police didn't administer the drug, a paramedic did.....my guess is that's because that's one of the things that paramedics do. The man had a violent reaction to the drug, in part due to pre-existing conditions. There would be no way of knowing this at the time.

Police don't administer narcotics in the US. They just don't.

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 05 Oct 2018, 21:24
by StMarks
D41 wrote:The Police didn't administer the drug, a paramedic did.....my guess is that's because that's one of the things that paramedics do. The man had a violent reaction to the drug, in part due to pre-existing conditions. There would be no way of knowing this at the time.

Police don't administer narcotics in the US. They just don't.
"The officers then fired their Tasers at him 15 times, administering long, painful electric shocks as he screamed and writhed in the bathtub. "
If you would like, I could show you how effectively an ordinary 12v car battery & a wet sponge can be used as a persuader. ?
I can only imagine what effect being naked & wet would have on a Taser's already potent impact.

Setting aside the fact that he was unarmed & posed no real threat to two big armed & armoured police officers, after the first shot failed to subdue him they should have discontinued that approach.
To have continued (15 times ! ) with the effect it was obviously having on him was nothing short of obscene.

If his death is attributable to the tranquillisers that were administered, then I would suggest it was impressive that his heart hadn't given out before hand.
Fwiw because of his apparent reaction to the drugs, I proposed "Manslaughter". If he had died of a cardiac arrest in the bathtub I would have written "Murder".

Hth.

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 05 Oct 2018, 22:49
by D41
Okay.....so who do I go with here..?
Your opinions based on a newspaper article, or the conclusions drawn by the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner??

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 05 Oct 2018, 23:06
by kiwikrasher
The big problem highlighted in this article is the lack or training for police when dealing with people that aren’t neurotypical (have a mental disability). The ‘control and command’ style mentioned requires the subject to have cognitive function and enough reasoning to decide to comply.

I’ve learnt the hard way, specifically with ASD, that cognitive function all but disappears when Byron has a meltdown. His anxiety gets so overwhelming any thing that feeds that just escalates the situation.

I’m not sure what the answer is to preventing these deaths of mentally disabled persons, but increased awareness and training for the police has to be a start.

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 06 Oct 2018, 09:09
by StMarks
D41 wrote:Okay.....so who do I go with here..?
Your opinions based on a newspaper article, or the conclusions drawn by the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner??
So, you feel that the officers behaved in an acceptable way.?
Fair enough, we all have different values & expectations I guess. :^

Fwiw from what little I gleaned from the article the outcome directly attributable to their actions was his death.?

As Kiwi points out, if someone is psychologically unable to comply with basic commands it is useless to continue repeating. Adding huge amounts of stress by electrocuting him repeatedly may well feed the neurosis.

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 06 Oct 2018, 09:42
by Monty
I listened to the BBC podcast on this a few days ago, well worth a listen. They include many more examples and it’s basically complie or die.

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 06 Oct 2018, 13:59
by D41
StMarks wrote:
D41 wrote:Okay.....so who do I go with here..?
Your opinions based on a newspaper article, or the conclusions drawn by the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner??
So, you feel that the officers behaved in an acceptable way.?
Fair enough, we all have different values & expectations I guess. :^

Fwiw from what little I gleaned from the article the outcome directly attributable to their actions was his death.?

As Kiwi points out, if someone is psychologically unable to comply with basic commands it is useless to continue repeating. Adding huge amounts of stress by electrocuting him repeatedly may well feed the neurosis.
I think that policing here is VERY different from the UK, and comparing the two is always going to end up being frustrating to an outsider.
I read a lot of threads on here bemoaning the lack of law enforcement in the UK, how the country has "gone to the dogs" etc.
Yet when laws are enforced more "forcefully", as they are here, then there's a lot of complaints. You can't have it both ways.
The police here are just reacting to what they have to deal with, in the way they are trained, and no system is perfect, as any exception such as this proves. But it doesn't mean that something like this is the way everything is handled.

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 06 Oct 2018, 14:06
by Monty
There's a big gulf between moaning about getting your bike nicked and getting shot dead in the face for refusing to lie down.

The only possible conclusion is that a life is worth less in the US.

Re: I know it's wrong

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 00:37
by D41
Okay.