I know it's wrong

For all the none biking stuff. Say hello, chew the fat or flame the forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Kwacky
Posts: 38538
Joined: 21 Oct 2013, 21:52
Your Bike: Brutale 800RR, 1000SX Ninja
Location: Brum
Has thanked: 4314 times
Been thanked: 8352 times

I know it's wrong

Post by Kwacky »

But why did I think of Little Britain when I saw the photo for the article?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45739335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image

But on a serious note, can't the Police stop shooting people?

And what are they doing administering strong drugs like that?
User avatar
StMarks
Posts: 4578
Joined: 17 Mar 2014, 21:55
Your Bike: Daytona 675 graphite
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Has thanked: 915 times
Been thanked: 1306 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by StMarks »

Kwacky wrote:But why did I think of Little Britain when I saw the photo for the article?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45739335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[img]
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpspr ... -index.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/img]

But on a serious note, can't the Police stop shooting people?

And what are they doing administering strong drugs like that?
Thank heavens that's over in Trumpton, not the UK.

Imo that is Manslaughter.!
User avatar
D41
Posts: 12923
Joined: 22 Sep 2014, 11:36
Your Bike: Triumph Daytona 650.
Has thanked: 4283 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by D41 »

The Police didn't administer the drug, a paramedic did.....my guess is that's because that's one of the things that paramedics do. The man had a violent reaction to the drug, in part due to pre-existing conditions. There would be no way of knowing this at the time.

Police don't administer narcotics in the US. They just don't.
User avatar
StMarks
Posts: 4578
Joined: 17 Mar 2014, 21:55
Your Bike: Daytona 675 graphite
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Has thanked: 915 times
Been thanked: 1306 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by StMarks »

D41 wrote:The Police didn't administer the drug, a paramedic did.....my guess is that's because that's one of the things that paramedics do. The man had a violent reaction to the drug, in part due to pre-existing conditions. There would be no way of knowing this at the time.

Police don't administer narcotics in the US. They just don't.
"The officers then fired their Tasers at him 15 times, administering long, painful electric shocks as he screamed and writhed in the bathtub. "
If you would like, I could show you how effectively an ordinary 12v car battery & a wet sponge can be used as a persuader. ?
I can only imagine what effect being naked & wet would have on a Taser's already potent impact.

Setting aside the fact that he was unarmed & posed no real threat to two big armed & armoured police officers, after the first shot failed to subdue him they should have discontinued that approach.
To have continued (15 times ! ) with the effect it was obviously having on him was nothing short of obscene.

If his death is attributable to the tranquillisers that were administered, then I would suggest it was impressive that his heart hadn't given out before hand.
Fwiw because of his apparent reaction to the drugs, I proposed "Manslaughter". If he had died of a cardiac arrest in the bathtub I would have written "Murder".

Hth.
User avatar
D41
Posts: 12923
Joined: 22 Sep 2014, 11:36
Your Bike: Triumph Daytona 650.
Has thanked: 4283 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by D41 »

Okay.....so who do I go with here..?
Your opinions based on a newspaper article, or the conclusions drawn by the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner??
User avatar
kiwikrasher
Posts: 8862
Joined: 17 Mar 2014, 04:32
Your Bike: ‘16 Thruxton R. '10 Multistrada 1200 S.
Location: Kurrajong Heights, NSW, Australia
Has thanked: 4577 times
Been thanked: 4647 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by kiwikrasher »

The big problem highlighted in this article is the lack or training for police when dealing with people that aren’t neurotypical (have a mental disability). The ‘control and command’ style mentioned requires the subject to have cognitive function and enough reasoning to decide to comply.

I’ve learnt the hard way, specifically with ASD, that cognitive function all but disappears when Byron has a meltdown. His anxiety gets so overwhelming any thing that feeds that just escalates the situation.

I’m not sure what the answer is to preventing these deaths of mentally disabled persons, but increased awareness and training for the police has to be a start.
Happiness is not a destination. It is a way of life.
User avatar
StMarks
Posts: 4578
Joined: 17 Mar 2014, 21:55
Your Bike: Daytona 675 graphite
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Has thanked: 915 times
Been thanked: 1306 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by StMarks »

D41 wrote:Okay.....so who do I go with here..?
Your opinions based on a newspaper article, or the conclusions drawn by the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner??
So, you feel that the officers behaved in an acceptable way.?
Fair enough, we all have different values & expectations I guess. :^

Fwiw from what little I gleaned from the article the outcome directly attributable to their actions was his death.?

As Kiwi points out, if someone is psychologically unable to comply with basic commands it is useless to continue repeating. Adding huge amounts of stress by electrocuting him repeatedly may well feed the neurosis.
User avatar
Monty
Posts: 6671
Joined: 12 Mar 2014, 07:59
Your Bike: 2010 ZX6R
Location: Buxton
Has thanked: 2092 times
Been thanked: 2412 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by Monty »

I listened to the BBC podcast on this a few days ago, well worth a listen. They include many more examples and it’s basically complie or die.
Monty™© MCMLXXII
User avatar
D41
Posts: 12923
Joined: 22 Sep 2014, 11:36
Your Bike: Triumph Daytona 650.
Has thanked: 4283 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by D41 »

StMarks wrote:
D41 wrote:Okay.....so who do I go with here..?
Your opinions based on a newspaper article, or the conclusions drawn by the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner??
So, you feel that the officers behaved in an acceptable way.?
Fair enough, we all have different values & expectations I guess. :^

Fwiw from what little I gleaned from the article the outcome directly attributable to their actions was his death.?

As Kiwi points out, if someone is psychologically unable to comply with basic commands it is useless to continue repeating. Adding huge amounts of stress by electrocuting him repeatedly may well feed the neurosis.
I think that policing here is VERY different from the UK, and comparing the two is always going to end up being frustrating to an outsider.
I read a lot of threads on here bemoaning the lack of law enforcement in the UK, how the country has "gone to the dogs" etc.
Yet when laws are enforced more "forcefully", as they are here, then there's a lot of complaints. You can't have it both ways.
The police here are just reacting to what they have to deal with, in the way they are trained, and no system is perfect, as any exception such as this proves. But it doesn't mean that something like this is the way everything is handled.
User avatar
Monty
Posts: 6671
Joined: 12 Mar 2014, 07:59
Your Bike: 2010 ZX6R
Location: Buxton
Has thanked: 2092 times
Been thanked: 2412 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by Monty »

There's a big gulf between moaning about getting your bike nicked and getting shot dead in the face for refusing to lie down.

The only possible conclusion is that a life is worth less in the US.
Monty™© MCMLXXII
User avatar
D41
Posts: 12923
Joined: 22 Sep 2014, 11:36
Your Bike: Triumph Daytona 650.
Has thanked: 4283 times
Been thanked: 1129 times

Re: I know it's wrong

Post by D41 »

Okay.
Post Reply