Inside Prisons

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Kwacky
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Inside Prisons

Post by Kwacky »

Following on from the recent discussion about prisons and prison life, I saw this link on Twitter.

I know it's from the Daily Mail, but the footage alone is disturbing enough.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... trend.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The length of a prison sentence means nothing if the inmates are allowed to run riot, use mobile phones, take drugs and run their illegal businesses inside. G4S is a f*ck up of a company. They run our prisons now. Yet nothing is done about them. The directors should be brought to account.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by bb41 »

I saw this earlier but only half way as I couldn't watch anymore. I visited my ex- son in law many times when he done 12 month at HMP . A crime I supported and which he handed himself in to the law immediately after (I would have done the same as he did )

There were a couple of things I felt odd was the amount of visiting allowed . 2nd There was a section in the visitors hall where the peadophile inmates were in the same hall as general population where young children of which were many were allowed also...IMO wrong.

prison is a punishment in my book and should be treated as such... it can't be hard to block mobile signals for a start... I don't buy rehabilitation as for short term prisoners it is of no use

I think too many are put in prison for petty crimes... those of theft on small amounts should be fined heavily and all proceeds paid back to the last penny, if that person is on benefits then the deductions should come off that benefit

I'd bring the army in to sort this out ..water cannons etc and get inmates to clear up the mess , lockdown for long periods and solitary for those who start or are involved in it.

Perhaps for young offenders 12 month in army basic training camp
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by Kwacky »

The problem with involving the army is that the government doesn't seem capable of giving serving soldiers the equipment and support they need.

And don't get me started on the number of ex-servicemen on the streets and/or in need of physical and mental health support.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by bb41 »

Kwacky wrote:The problem with involving the army is that the government doesn't seem capable of giving serving soldiers the equipment and support they need.

And don't get me started on the number of ex-servicemen on the streets and/or in need of physical and mental health support.
I agree about mental health support... My daughter works for Thames Valley and in her previous role she used to see officers picking up mental health patients and having to take them to the local A & E depts, they then had to stay until the hospital could sort out appropriate care .

This took usually 2 officers out of action for many hours until the patient could be found suitable accommodation plus accompanying paperwork

Oxfordshire is quite lucky to have large mental health facilities covering many sites, but due to the rise in drug related issues these are full or near to capacity.

years ago I worked in the ICU dept of one of them and all inpatients were drug related
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by StMarks »

Privatising Prisons is absurd.: Prisons are currently our society's way to enforce it's laws & conduct to comply with the wishes of the democratic majority. Therefore it should be controlled by the custodians of that responsibility.
NOT by an unaccountable "for profits" scam.


What do we want our prison system to do.:

To punish offenders.? - (shake) We've discussed that, and that it does not serve as punishment to those who we would punish.
To deter crime.?? - (shake) We've covered that, and it would appear it has the opposite effect.
To re-habilitate.??? - (shake) See above.
Make profits for a few directors & CEO's of badly run corporations.???? - (nod) Ahhh, that must be why we have prisons.! (clap)
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by D41 »

You don't have your army run your prisons any more than you would have your prison guards fight your wars. They're a last-resort temporary measure at best & nothing more.

Anyone old enough to remember the fire brigade strike of the late 70's will remember the fiasco that was.....Green Goddess knacker fire-engines trundling up & down the road, their stunning 2-hour response times, etc.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by Kwacky »

Didn't that happen again in the 1980s? I don't remember the fire service strikes in the 70s but I do recall the Green Goddesses.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by D41 »

I think they were "almost" deployed.
If memory serves, the fire brigade committee (or whatever it is called?) gave the fire-fighters some sort of "it'll cost you your jobs & pensions"-ultimatum and they backed down. Or it only lasted a fortnight. Sommit like that.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by D41 »

Google tells me it was only a year or so later. And then again in the early 2000's, it seems.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by kiwikrasher »

While I was in the RNZAF there was a prison guard strike and the military was brought in to cover. I worked as a guard for 5 days at a remand block in medium security.

I do not wish that job on anyone and not one bit of my military training prepared me for that. Apart from taking orders from superiors.

In the short time I was there my opinion and predudice of a slice of our society changed dramatically. We were allowed to read files under ‘duty if care’. I read 3 and everyone of them made me sick to the stomach.

Took a good 2-3 months to let that all slide again and not pre-judge people because they looked like a crim.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by StMarks »

kiwikrasher wrote:.......Took a good 2-3 months to let that all slide again and not pre-judge people because they looked like a crim'.
& simply sweeping "bad" people out of view under the carpet (aka in prison) is no answer imho.

We need to work out a much smarter modern solution to preventing anti-social behaviour.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by bb41 »

StMarks wrote:
kiwikrasher wrote:.......Took a good 2-3 months to let that all slide again and not pre-judge people because they looked like a crim'.
& simply sweeping "bad" people out of view under the carpet (aka in prison) is no answer imho.

We need to work out a much smarter modern solution to preventing anti-social behaviour.
Too much time on younger peoples hands , idle hands make devils work. No job or no further education or training at 18 then surely 12 months in the forces where they will have to learn a trade... no choice. maybe it might be the kick up the bum some of them need
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by Kwacky »

I think it starts at home. Parents have a big role to play in telling kids what is right and what is wrong. Parents need to accept responsibility for their actions and the actions of their children. You can't blame the police or the teachers if your offspring is a little shit who knows no boundaries and thinks stealing is fair game and carrying a knife is the norm.

Forcing them into the army is too little too late IMO and would achieve nothing.

Community involvement is key as well. Make young offenders do public work in their own areas. They've be less inclined to smash things up and treat the place like a dumping ground if they've been made to improve and maintain where they live.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by bb41 »

Kwacky wrote:I think it starts at home. Parents have a big role to play in telling kids what is right and what is wrong. Parents need to accept responsibility for their actions and the actions of their children. You can't blame the police or the teachers if your offspring is a little shit who knows no boundaries and thinks stealing is fair game and carrying a knife is the norm.

Forcing them into the army is too little too late IMO and would achieve nothing.

Community involvement is key as well. Make young offenders do public work in their own areas. They've be less inclined to smash things up and treat the place like a dumping ground if they've been made to improve and maintain where they live.
Totally agree with everything you said there. Kids aren't born criminals , they learn it
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by C00kiemonster »

Kwacky wrote:I think it starts at home. Parents have a big role to play in telling kids what is right and what is wrong. Parents need to accept responsibility for their actions and the actions of their children. You can't blame the police or the teachers if your offspring is a little shit who knows no boundaries and thinks stealing is fair game and carrying a knife is the norm.

Forcing them into the army is too little too late IMO and would achieve nothing.

Community involvement is key as well. Make young offenders do public work in their own areas. They've be less inclined to smash things up and treat the place like a dumping ground if they've been made to improve and maintain where they live.
Dead right.

My eldest is now a social worker (after lots of training and hard work). She specialises in kids in different aspects of trouble and some of the stories of parents (and grand parents) is horrendous. These people don't take responsibility for themselves, let alone the kids - they couldnt give a shit.

She is dealing with one particular family where drugs are involved and the cupboards are bare - nothing at all. They dont feed their kids, let alone themselves. She carries shopping vouchers for ASDA which she can give when there is particular hardship. Their kids are starving - but nothing gets bought from the shops - the vouchers are being sold in the pub for drugs money so the kids continue to starve.

So rightfully so, eldest then refuses to give them the voucher they have come to expect (!) and offers to take them to ASDA and get food so they can all eat (mainly for the kids). Parents refuse the voucher because they cant be bothered - kids continue to starve.

It is no wonder these kids turn to crime and/or drugs - they have no alternative or perspective sadly.

Oh and if you wonder how bad councils are now in the UK, she hasn't been paid since June yet she's doing more hours than ever in what frankly is a horrendous job. They are 'prioritising' other services. Councils not paying bills and wages? It's all very broken.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by kiwikrasher »

‘Someone Who Isn’t Me’ grew up in a so called criminal environment.

Drugs where used openly around SWIM from the age of about 10. Including cultivation and selling.

Second hand goods at unbelievable prices sold by enterprising individuals was the norm.

SWIM lived across from a supermarket and dumpster diving for canned stuff they threw out was a regular occurrence. Though will point out that was more a ‘getting something for free’ rather than because there was no food in the house. SWIM always had food, clothing and shelter (expect for when the stepmum took her frustration out on SWIM when his dad wasn’t there and spent nights sleeping out because he didn’t feel safe at home)

SWIM knew it wasn’t right even though it was the way of life.

SWIM fully appreciate people can be a product of their environment but at a certain age you are fully aware of what is right and wrong. You still make the choice if that is the life you want or not.

SWIM left home at 16 and had no financial backing from parents at all. A couple of years later SWIM joined the military at a turning point in life where court appearances were starting to become more regular. The military is a good option for people to learn self respect, self discipline and learn the rewards of hard work and perseverance.

SWIM now lives a law abiding life (bar some minor traffic mistermeaners (lol) ) and has a comfortable life cut out of hard work and mostly sensible decisions.

It completely sh*ts SWIM to bits when people blame their environment for their life choices.

In modern society there is always an opportunity. It won’t be given to you on a platter. You have to work hard, go with out, and fight your way through. But it’s there for your taking. Giving in to a life of crime is the lazy, easy way out.
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by D41 »

......And SWIY is probably the exception to the rule. By a huge margin (not even 1 in 20 will be so fortunate).
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by StMarks »

kiwikrasher wrote:‘.... A couple of years later SWIM joined the military at a turning point in life where court appearances were starting to become more regular......
Thereby learning, at an appropriate stage, that the rewards for following one set of rules was more rewarding than breaking another set of rules.

Whilst it is heartening to read that, fwiw I agree with Kwacky that conscription is not really the answer.

IMHO the damage is generally done from an early age, and it takes someone of exceptional character to be able to develop themselves in contradiction to their nurturing environment. We need to do something to help "most" of them, not just the exceptional ones like SWHIY.



Perhaps the most effective (and most controversial, extreme & unworkable) resolution could be to; Not allow anyone to have children until they had met certain criteria & met a level of parenting ability.?
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by bb41 »

StMarks wrote:
kiwikrasher wrote:‘....



Perhaps the most effective (and most controversial, extreme & unworkable) resolution could be to; Not allow anyone to have children until they had met certain criteria & met a level of parenting ability.?
I know a few who should never breed... ever !! but seem to at an alarming rate with no hope of paying for a roof , bills ,rent or anything else themselves
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Re: Inside Prisons

Post by StMarks »

bb41 wrote:......I know a few who should never breed... ever !! but seem to at an alarming rate with no hope of paying for a roof , bills ,rent or anything else themselves
If we wish to do something as trivial as being allowed to ride a motorcycle on the roads, there is a list of minimum requirements that we must first be able to fulfil. We must then receive considerable instruction, after which we are required to pass a test of our level of competence.
All before we can simply ride a motorcycle on the highways.
The single most impact we make on the world is having children.
Yet there is little or no guidance, requirements or control.
Quite the opposite. A perverse effect of our attempts to assist the vulnerable, is to almost encourage some to have numerous children from a very early age. Sadly this also appears to be self perpetuating. The very children who are neglected and uncontrolled due to being created by that effect, are highly likely to follow suit.

All sounds rather Fascist, but I wonder if we are actually "ruining a lot of lives" by not being a bit more pro-active about this.?

:? Monty's going to put a contract out on me now. (giggle)
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