Mrs Trump

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D41
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

It's totally relevant. Whether you like it or not...that's the part that's irrelevant.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by Monty »

I'll like what I like, you just keep making up the excuses
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

There's nothing "made up" about this.
What's the argument here...that we just let absolutely anyone & everyone in, as & when they choose to either show up on the doorstep, or walk right on in, uninvited??
This place is not a charity organization.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by duke63 »

D41 wrote:And that's just what the USA loves more than anything....when other people, tells it how to solve problems created by...other people.
No-one is about to start slashing the defense budget to house illegals...that would make the problem worse, not better.
"Hey...Come to America--Everyone is welcome!! And now, for an unlimited time only...Free Room And Board!!!"
Unlikely.
Historically much of the border area was actually part of Mexico til the USA annexed it. So really its the Americans who are the immigrants. :P

And the Mexicans are just reclaiming what is rightly theirs.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

Not quite. There was a thing called the Mexican-American War...which we won. The Mexican territory the US occupied at the end of that war was ceded to the US in the peace treaty that subsequently followed. About 180 years ago.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by duke63 »

So it was Mexico til the US stole it by force. :)
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

Almost. The borders were not quite as well defined as they are now...meaning they were still disputed. Settled. Then disputed again. There's always been a "back & forth" dispute between the US and our neighbors to the south. That is not likely to change anytime soon, but it is a little bit more clearcut than "Are we still in the EU or what??" - European national borders tend to change a lot more readily than those in North America.....Czechoslovakia, East & West Germany, etc. to name but a few.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by duke63 »

A border is only some imaginary line drawn by a **** politician or King/queen to defend their ill gotten gains.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

"Ill gotten gains"?? What are you, a pirate??

National borders have been around since when? Medieval times, Roman times?? Prior to that, probably.

They work just fine...and as is being shown now, continue to do so.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by Kwacky »

D41 doesn't want immigrants in the USA just in case they contribute something and show him up.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by duke63 »

Borders are one of the most fundamental restrictions of peoples freedom - freedom of movement.

Some interesting facts in this piece.

https://newint.org/features/1991/09/05/simply" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

Kwacky wrote:D41 doesn't want immigrants in the USA just in case they contribute something and show him up.
They won't show me up, trust me....I have no shame.
In fact, if I were paid the right amount of $$$, I'd even smuggle one or two through the border check in the back of a carpet truck loaded with padding..../
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by Jack »

Not policing a border is akin to leaving your house unlocked , you're just asking for trouble . Borders are very important they divide you and yours from them and theirs whether it be on a personal level like your front door or garden gate or a National one .
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by kiwikrasher »

D41, it’s pretty fecking simple. Human rights are Human rights. There should be no situation where there is an excuse to exclude those rights to detainees.

And before you bring it up, yes I know Aussie has had similar issues and I don’t agree with some of the governments methods here either, and they were a lot better than the way the US is currently managing things.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

The only human rights you have are those granted by others....as you've just pointed out.
If you break into a business, a school, a house, whatever it is....then there are consequences if you're caught. You break just about any law for that matter & there could be consequences.
The US does not have an "open door" policy for immigrants, it just doesn't.
Don't like the way you're treated in a US detention facility?? Then don't put yourself in the position where you'll end up in one.
Now that, mi amigo...is truly something that is "pretty fecking simple".
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by kiwikrasher »

Human rights are moral principles or norms that describe certain standards of human behaviour and are regularly protected as natural and legal rights in municipal and international law. They are commonly understood as inalienable, fundamental rights "to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being" and which are "inherent in all human beings", regardless of their nation, location, language, religion, ethnic origin or any other status.
No D, Human Rights have a legal standing, it’s not just what you decide they should be.

The US has a right to no have a ‘Open Door’ policy, and I agree with their right to control immigration. But if they choose to detain people as part of that, they have a responsibility as a member of the international community to maintain the human rights of those detained.

If law breakers domestically were subject to the same conditions as the border invaders are, there would be uproar and criminal ramifications. Unfortunately it seems, international human rights crimes processes are very slow in their righting the wrongs.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

You're splitting hairs....we don't "choose" to detain people, Border Patrol agents, just like cops, are duty-bound to respond/react.
And, depending upon whether a domestic prisoner's crimes are state or federal convictions, they may well find themselves in very similar conditions, for a much longer period, perhaps for years.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by kiwikrasher »

Your government chooses to have a policy to detain illegal immigrants . (And I’m Ok with that)

Your government is choosing/allowing them to be kept in non-humane conditions. (I’m not ok with that)

I worked in a medium security prison on the remand wing while in the Air Force while the prision guard union was on strike. People in domestic detention/jail are given time to exercise outside of a cell, are protected from the elements, are fed, and are given the means to maintain a sanitary condition, i.e. shower, toileting etc. they are given access to education.

The detainee’s in the border camps in at least some of the instances reported, by numerous sources, are not being given those basic human rights.

That’s what I have issue with.

That whole point seems lost on you. So I’ll not bang my head against the ‘Darren, Team America! F**k Yeah!’ wall any longer.
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by D41 »

kiwikrasher wrote:
That whole point seems lost on you. So I’ll not bang my head against the ‘Darren, Team America! F**k Yeah!’ wall any longer.
Sounds like a good plan. (y)
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Re: Mrs Trump

Post by Cav »

Durp.
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