Brexit thread

[duke63]

Letter sent to his MP by a West Country resident. Very eloquent.

Anthony Mangnall M.P.

House of Commons

London SW1A 0AA 26 October 2020

Dear Mr Mangnall

I’m writing this open letter to you in reply to yours of 27 July 2020, which reprimands me for calling Brexit out as a “resurgence of the disease of fascism”.

Be in no doubt: that’s exactly what Brexit is. The case is not yet terminal, for sure, but the disease advances daily and the patient is now seriously ill.

As you may know, the institutions that became the EU were founded in the ashes of World War 2, to put an end to centuries of conflict among the states of Europe. In leaving this highly successful peace project, the UK has embraced a dangerous right-wing nationalism of just the kind that characterizes fascist projects.

Like fascism, Brexit is two things that never work: isolationist and populist. Its isolationism is plain to see, as we face a hard Brexit that severs us from virtually every EU institution that connects us with our neighbours and builds our shared lives, work and culture. Its populism is more difficult to define but a central feature, in my view, is the making of big promises that are superficially appealing but cannot be delivered because they are based on lies. Indeed, as in all fascist projects, Brexit’s outcomes will be the opposite of what was promised: we were told we would “take back control” but in fact we will lose it, as we can no longer influence policy making in Brussels and Strasbourg and will be increasingly humiliated by the major global powers – the USA, China and Russia. (For an early taste of this, watch a Biden-led White House spurn the UK’s “mini-Trump”, castigate his threat to the Good Friday agreement and place us at the back of the queue for a trade deal.) Again, we were promised a “global Britain” but instead we are likely to face the death of the UK as Scotland votes for independence and Northern Ireland rejoins the republic. In 1930s Germany it was the same: the promise was national supremacy, but what was delivered, in 1945, was national defeat, destruction and disgrace.

Like all populist projects, Brexit is highly divisive, appealing to only a proportion of the people. And as in Germany, that proportion will end up falling out of love with the project, because, being based on lies, it will fail. In the UK, polls already show a strengthening majority for Remain/Re-join. Brexit is now extremely unpopular among young people. The only crumb of comfort one can derive from this disaster is that, once the fantasies that brought us Brexit have crashed and burned, the young will return us to the European fold. In the meantime, those who cherish our country’s traditional values of moderation and pragmatism must mourn their betrayal and hang our heads in shame at what our country has become.

To distract attention from its failure, the project rounds on scapegoats. In 1930s Germany it was the Jews, Communists, the disabled, homosexuals and gypsies whom the people were taught to hate. In today’s UK, Mr Johnson and his pro-Brexit ministers blame anyone but themselves for the mess they are making – Remainers, the Lords, the Commons, the media, the judiciary and, most of all of course, the EU itself. Racist attacks and abuse have multiplied since the 2016 referendum, often at the prompting of government or its backers on the far right. A recent knife attack at a London law firm is alleged to have been directly motivated by the Home Secretary’s claim that “activist lawyers” were frustrating the removal of migrants.

In fascist projects, ideology always trumps pragmatism – and the real interests of the country and its people are sacrificed in the relentless pursuit of the dream. Those who sold us Brexit sold us the lie that the EU and its institutions were holding us back, that without them we would prosper. The exact opposite is true: under none of the government’s economic scenarios will we be better off out of the EU than we are in it; inward investment has fallen off a cliff since 2016; jobs and companies were already disappearing in the run-up to our January exit, a trend accelerated by the pandemic. The government’s refusal to extend the transition period during a global public health crisis shows its contempt for business people – a contempt epitomized by Mr Johnson’s “**** business” retort of two years ago.

Also characteristic of fascism is the government’s wanton cruelty to the poor and vulnerable. The “hostile environment” that led to the scandalous treatment of the Windrush generation persists, as the government threatens increasing numbers of asylum seekers with eviction and deportation during the second wave of the pandemic, a move described by one charity as “reckless and irresponsible”. Tory MPs, you included, have also refused to honour the UK’s commitment to child refugees. And now you have voted to deprive hungry school children of a daily meal during the Christmas holidays. It’s their parents’ fault they’re hungry, right?

Corruption, law breaking and authoritarianism are further hallmarks of fascism. With every passing day the government wades deeper into all three.

Using the pandemic as cover, ministers have awarded numerous contracts to their friends without a proper bidding process, wasting billions in taxpayers’ money. The most notorious example is the national track and trace system, a catastrophic failure run by a woman with no experience in public health whose husband is the UK’s anti-corruption champion! Law breaking characterized both Leave campaigns and in a functioning democracy the results of the 2016 referendum would have been disqualified. Mr Johnson broke national law when he prorogued Parliament last autumn; now he proposes breaking international law by tearing up the Withdrawal Agreement he hailed as a triumph less than 9 months ago. Revenge against those who stand against him is promised: attacks on the BBC and Channel 4 will undermine our freedom of speech; attacks on the judiciary, especially the Supreme Court, will sabotage our rights under the law. Most worryingly, on 5 October the government passed the Covert Human Intelligence Sources Bill, which enables a wide range of state actors to commit crimes, including torture and murder, for ill-defined purposes that include “preventing disorder”. Unless reversed, this slide into authoritarianism could sound the death knell for our already broken democracy.

During its early stages, fascism is seldom recognized for what it is by either the people or their rulers. It’s a creeping disease, a characteristic that makes it doubly dangerous. For what starts as a joke – a little poking of fun at a minority, a little bending of the truth in newspaper articles about bendy bananas – can, if unchecked, progress, through the erosion of rights and freedoms and the unleashing of hatred, to a final act played out in the darkness of the death camp.

We aren’t there yet and you may think it sounds fanciful to say that one day soon we could be. But that is the truth: those who witnessed Germany’s descent into fascism in the 1930s testify to the frightening speed at which it happened. If you see the signs of the disease yet say in disbelief, “It couldn’t happen here”, you are guilty of an enabling complacency. Remember Burke’s dictum that, for evil to triumph, it is sufficient only that good people should do nothing.

In leaving the EU, the UK has placed itself in the vanguard of the fascist revival taking place across Europe and the world. That is no place for our country to be, and history will condemn us for going there.

Mr Mangnall, you and your fellow MPs must turn back from this project while you still can.

Best regards

Simon Chater

[StMarks]

Even if Brexit were stopped dead right now,
and it can not & will not do so,,
,,but even if it were somehow stopped, and we did not proceed any further than we already have, the changes to the UK that have already been set in motion are groundbreaking & irreparable.

So I don't see how we are gaining anything by pointing out the blinking obvious to those who neither care nor choose to listen. Surely all we can do now is to all try to make the best of it for as long as we can.?

[duke63]

The transition period is ending on 31 December and there will be no extension. The current rules for hiring workers from the EU will change. Time is running out and I urge you to act now to prepare for our new relationship with the EU.
You can find out what other actions you may need to take by visiting gov.uk/transition and using the checker tool.
From 1 January 2021, the UK will introduce a points-based immigration system that will treat EU and non-EU citizens equally and transform the way in which employers recruit internationally.
The new points-based system will ensure we prioritise and invest in those people already in the UK, upskilling our current work force, whilst also attracting the best and brightest from around the world.
Regardless of the nature of our future trading relationship with the EU, from 1 January there will be guaranteed changes for businesses:
• You will need to be a licensed sponsor to hire eligible workers from outside the UK. This normally takes 8 weeks and fees apply. Check your business is eligible and read the accompanying sponsorship guidance.
• New job, salary and language requirements will apply to anyone that you want to hire from outside the UK. Check that the people you want to hire will meet the requirements for coming to the UK for work.
The new system will not apply to hiring Irish citizens, or EU citizens already living and working in the UK who are eligible under the EU Settlement Scheme.
The Government will continue to provide the information and support you need to prepare for these changes. This includes sector-specific webinars to walk you through the actions you need to take. All previously recorded webinars are also available on demand now.
If you do not take action, there is a risk your business operations will be interrupted.
I know these are challenging times and I want to take the opportunity to thank you for everything you are doing to ensure a smooth end to the transition period. The Government will be there to help you to take advantage of the new opportunities that being an independent trading nation will bring.
Yours sincerely,
Rt Hon Alok Sharma MP
Secretary of State for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy

We have a Government that gives not one single **** how many businesses go to the wall....as they have delivered Brexit...and made a personal fortune from it.

[Kwacky]

It turns out that the deal with Japan isn't as good as it's being painted (surprise)

The amount of goods we can trade tariff free with Japan is dependent on how much the EU trades with Japan. We're allowed whatever allowance the EU doesn't use. So if the EU uses all of its allowance we can't trade tariff free with Japan.

[duke63]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54907188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The ship is sinking and the rats are leaving.

Some reports that the UK will renege on many of its Brexit promises and give the EU many concessions to get a deal.

[Kwacky]

The stupid pricks were too stubborn to agree an extension for the transition period. Too stubborn to publicly confirm that concessions needed to be made and too stupid to plan for what's about to happen.

Sadly those in favour of Brexit will continue to deny it was a bad choice and look to blame all of its failings on the EU.

[C00kiemonster]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54907188

The ship is sinking and the rats are leaving.

Some reports that the UK will renege on many of its Brexit promises and give the EU many concessions to get a deal.

I'm sure your right.

Given it's 6 weeks away, nothing could possibly be ready for transition to any new regime, so something has to give timescale wise.

Either way it's a shit fest.

[duke63]

Visa Free Travel EU/Brexit

Whilst this does sound like a reasonable compromise, the EU has already stated that this visa free travel is subject to extra border checks.

Additional sources have speculated that whilst crossing EU borders, ‘endangered’ products such as Rosewood (used on some guitar fretboards) will have to be declared at customs.

The ABO (Association of British Orchestras) claim to have been told that ports such as Dover and Calais are not ‘set up’ to handle such paperwork and could result in delays or re-routed trips to cross EU borders.

[duke63]

[Kwacky]

I saw that yesterday.

I wonder what the actual spend is to date? One figure I've seen is £8bn. I guess it's hard to calculate.

[duke63]

Probably impossible to calculate, but it is possible to say that all those things promised by Vote Leave, very few of them have actually come to fruition.

Remember all those great free trade deals?, the extra cash to the NHS? the easiest trade deal ever with the EU with everything in the UKs favour?

All lies and bullshit!

[Kwacky]

Of course it was bullshit. Most voters thought it was all about immigration and one of the Leave campaigns went down that rabbit hole.

Hardly anyone gave a shit about the EU until talk of a referendum. Then it was all about unelected bureaucrats, obstinate EU laws and sovereignty. Wave the flag, talk about Word War 2, return of the British Empire.

People still think we're a voice, a power. We're not. We had a lot of sway and influence in the EU. Leaving the EU makes us smaller and less significant.

[Cav]

What are you on about Duke? There's been loads of cash spent on the NHS this year! Mostly on masks that weren't fit for purpose or never existed!

I absolutely hate Politics.

[Perkles]

What are you on about Duke? There's been loads of cash spent on the NHS this year! Mostly on masks that weren't fit for purpose or never existed!

I absolutely hate Politics.

"Mostly on masks that weren't fit for purpose or never existed"

From start up companies politicians have shares in

[Cav]

In case it wasn't picked up... I was being sarcastic

[duke63]

[Kwacky]

Latest hindsight poll shows 51% think brexit was a mistake against 38% in support.

Not that it matters any more

[StMarks]

Latest hindsight poll shows 51% think brexit was a mistake against 38% in support.

Not that it matters any more

How 38% can still be in support beggars belief.

[Kwacky]

Because 38% of them think that leaving the EU is in the best interests of the country.



Nah, I'm kidding. People still think leaving the EU means we close our borders, no more immigrants, jobs for everyone, massive trade deals (like the ones we've struck in the 4 years since the referendum) and don't forget keeping out own fish and the all important sovereignty (/waves flag).

[duke63]

I still wonder what UK fishermen are going to do with all this extra fish they catch.... but for which they gave a much smaller market in which to sell.